Episode 282 (Dr Ken. Canfield: Part 1)Podcast Intro: [00:00:01] Being a great father takes a massive amount of courage. Instead of being an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a decent leader. The oldest dad in the world gave you this assignment, which means you must be ready for it. As a dad I get on my knees and I fight for my kids. Let us be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. I want encounters with God where He teaches me what to do with my kids. I know I'm going to be an awesome dad because I'm gonna give it my all.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:00:39] The mark of a father isn't that he fails. All fathers will fail. The mark of a father is what he does after he fails. Come on, you get learning by experimenting. There are no perfect fathers except one. And if He is tightly in your heart and your household, and you're just humbly submitting to Him, show me somebody who's humble and a father who's willing to say I was wrong, I'm sorry, will you forgive me? Oh man, who doesn't want to have that guy father him?Jeff Zaugg: [00:01:13] Welcome back to dadAWESOME. My name is Jeff Zaugg, and today, episode 282, we're headed into Father's Day weekend. So happy Father's Day, guys. We're actually going to sandwich Father's Day. So we've got part one of a conversation, today, and then next week after Father's Day, Episode 283 will be the second half of this conversation with Dr. Ken Canfield. So for Father's Day, I'm always looking for a special conversation and when you get a chance to sit down, when I got the chance and you guys are right now in your earbuds, you are sitting down, you are pulling up a chair with a heart of I want to be a learner. I got a chance to do that in Fayetteville, Arkansas, with Dr. Ken Canfield. He has been after this topic of intentional fatherhood for nearly 40 years. So he founded the National Center for Fathering, fathers.com is the Web site for that organization in 1990, 33 years ago. But he was doing work in this area before that. He has studied, he has researched, he has surveyed thousands of dads. He has written so many books. We actually go into these seven areas that he's like these rose to the top. We're going to go into four of them this week and then the last three next week. We're going to talk so many topics, I can't even recap it now. But guys, happy Father's Day, this is a gift for me, this conversation, and it's a gift for you. We want to be dads who are choosing to be dadAWESOME. Not dads who are saying it's good enough, happy Father's Day to me, it's good enough. No, guys, instead of Father's Day, Let's make it dadAWESOME day. We are turning dials of intentionality. We're turning up dials of the love. We're turning up pursuit towards the hearts of our kids. We're turning up all these areas because we love that we get to be dads. So happy Father's Day. Here's the first half of my conversation with Dr. Ken Canfield. How many years ago was it that you said, I'm not only going to take fatherhood seriously for my five kids, but I'm going to study this and go into even the PhD program? How many years ago was that and what caused that kind of intentionality?Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:03:33] Birth of my first child. When my daughter Hannah was born there something that just went off in me, I didn't know. And then I thought, Why am I getting this kind of mysterious kind of urge to care and and nurture her? Well, then I just did a little research, I was in a master's program at the University of British Columbia. And, you know, I began to see, you know, the sequencing, get this, Jeff, back in the last century, in the 50s, 60s, 70s, dads would smoke cigars in the hospital to celebrate kids. Now, just get that picture and then they come up and look through there, for their child, through bulletproof glass. [00:04:13][40.0]Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:14] They wouldn't even go in proximity?Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:04:15] No, no, because these guys were germ laden and, you know, something could happen. And so when I went through the Lamaze thing with Dee and just had that attachment going on, Hey, I did what I bet you did, too, you gain a few pounds because here's a pregnant wife you're eating and so forth. And so the birth of Hannah just opened my eyes to the what some people say is that that mystical experience that has spiritual depth and meaning as well. So that's what got me going. And then I thought, Hey, I got to study this. I looked at all the literature. It's all about mothering. I mean, parenting was synonymous with mothering and they had so many good things. So I kind of forged out as a pioneer, there are very few. And really the minority community got this because out of the 60s, you see many minority men put aside and the government steps in and Uncle Sam becomes Father Sam and hey, you'll get more help if you have a child out of wedlock and da, da, da, da, da and man, I saw this challenge. It wasn't deadbeat dads. They were dead broke and they hit dead ends because they weren't wanted. And then I thought I got to put some rigor in that. So I started doing research. That's how it began.Jeff Zaugg: [00:05:37] So a research phase led to a studying. So, you're researching, your studying, you're doing Ph.D. work, but then there came a point where you said, Hey, I'm going to start the national, It's called the National Center for Fathering.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:05:48] Correct. Yeah.Jeff Zaugg: [00:05:48] You started that organization to serve across the country, but now your books are in like ten languages around the world, so you even went beyond.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:05:55] Oh, we have a big problem in the United States, the most fatherless nation in the developed world. But then you look around and there was hunger in Europe, there was hunger in Asia, there was hunger in South America. So I didn't know this was going to be as big as I thought it would be. I just wanted to be a good dad, just like the Zaugg family. You know, you got five children, three daughters, two sons. I just wanted to excel in that and then the rest is history.Jeff Zaugg: [00:06:24] That is a gift. It starts on the home front and then look what happened beyond the home front.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:06:30] Absolutely. And that's how we conquer this fatherless issue. I tell every dad, father first your own children to the best of your ability. And I understand we have divorce and fracture and so forth. And for some dads, I really, you know, I'm saddened for because they want to be the dads, but because of decisions and things that happen, they can't. But if you're a father and you have access to your children, father them first. And if you spill out with what I call father fullness, care, attention, support, you know what? They'll attract fatherless kids. So it's kind of a vicarious way to send that out. And then just like in your extended family, I have it in mine. And so, yeah, as an uncle, I played the surrogate father and so there's plenty of work guys, come into the field, the harvest is rich.Jeff Zaugg: [00:07:20] I love it. Let's do a snapshot. So it's present day and then if you snapshot back 30 to 40 years ago, when you started kind of being passionate, interested in this work, what changes, what's similar and what's different in those two time periods?Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:07:32] Well, two things. The best of times, worst of times. Here, you, dadAWESOME is doing some great work. Practical stuff. We need every generation, Not just you, but like ten of you, Jeff.Jeff Zaugg: [00:07:44] Yeah, right. Let's go more. Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:07:45] And yes, and for these dads, like you, you have resources your dad didn't have. And God bless him, he left a great heritage, I listen to your podcast. he passed away, he's in heaven. And man, what a rich history you have. But then it's the worst of times with abuse, abandonment. I was on the Oprah show once and I was asked to help kind of guide, you know, the the day. And so I said, get a couple of dads and some kids who haven't seen their dads and talk about what it means to come together, I had no clue what was happening. Here I was, in Chicago, they flew me in and I'm kind of like the key to explain everything. They got the executive producer, two daughters, and a son that hadn't seen their fathers. Two different fathers for 10 and 12 years, respectively. And they put him on the show. I thought, this isn't the Jerry Springer, jacked show. But I looked at Oprah's eyes and she started to tear up because she knew, you know, what a fracture had done. And so these are difficult times. And if you're a child or if you're a fatherless dad that grew up fatherless, let me just tell you, there's an overcoming spirit that's just being spread all over. And if you're in a faith community, there is a church, it's a warehouse of resource, and that's how you overcome and so I see a generation like that. Then I see, you know, the same old kind of busy dads that they just get lost in, you know, the upward escalation in business or whatever their career and they miss those important years and so they don't focus. And then, dad's with addictive behaviors, it's growing, unfortunately. Look at the incarceration problem and you do any data search anywhere from at the low 68%, at the high, probably 88% of the men who are incarcerated all over America grew up in fatherless homes.Jeff Zaugg: [00:09:54] Yeah. Well, what you're sharing is both hopeful and we should take, we should be very serious about.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:09:59] Yeah. Very.Jeff Zaugg: [00:10:00] So it's both sides. You mentioned earlier that, hey, we need 10 more dadAWESOME's out there and I fully agree. In fact, anytime I find an organization, a leader, just an intentional dad who's a champion saying, Hey, I want to help others beyond myself, it's actually rare, every time I find one, I'm like, Yes, let's go. Part of the reason I feel like it's rare, this is my hypothesis is, because of maybe some pain from our own dad.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:10:24] Sure.Jeff Zaugg: [00:10:24] Or some shame or feeling like, Man, I'm actually struggling, currently, being a dad on the home front, we opt out of helping others. A lot of dads, I think, opt out because we're like, Well, if I don't have it perfect on the home front, which we never get there, none of us do. We don't opt in to saying, Hey, I'll have a group of guys over for a campfire to talk about intentional fatherhood or Hey, I'll go, we'll, we'll journey to this retreat and go learn about being intentional dads or this or that. Guys aren't going first, they're not raising their hands, saying, I'll be the catalyst, I'll be the initiator. What's your take on how we move dads, The hundreds and thousands out there that are going to listen to this to saying, I'll be a difference maker for other dads? I'll go be on my home front, too, saying fatherhood matters for others. [Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:11:06] Okay. Do what you do once a month, I listen to your podcast, you take time to get connected to another father. Now your earthly father's in heaven, but there is a spiritual Father that wants to lavish you with the same blessing that your earthly dad did. Now, you made a good point here. Listen up. Whoever may be listening, Mom, Dad, whatever the mark of a father isn't that he fails. All fathers will fail. The mark of a father is what he does after he fails. Come on. You get learning by experimenting. There are no perfect fathers except one. And if he is tightly in your heart and your household, and you're just humbly submitting to Him, He's going to bless you. You know why? He's invested in your name. They call him Father. Oh, my goodness. And so to the extent that we nurture that part of our life, we'll be good fathers. So we're going to fail, make stupid things, you know, that we wish we wouldn't have done. Yes, but humility is so much in demand right now, well just show me somebody who's humble and a father who's willing to say I was wrong. I'm sorry. Will you forgive me? Oh, man, who doesn't want to have that guy father him?Jeff Zaugg: [00:12:28] So how do you move from that place of picking yourself up and have encouraged to still stay after going after the hearts of your kids, to actually saying, I'm going to start a small group, I'm going to do something to get other dads headed in the same direction of intentionality?Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:12:41] Yeah. Well, first of all, recognize that vulnerability is winsome. Coach McCartney, the founder of Promise Keepers, close friend, he's in a retirement center now, struggling with Alzheimer's. And and so, you know what he did? He said, sure, he won a national championship. He got on the platform, Jeff, and confessed that his daughter got pregnant by a football player that he had coached. And and then he said I was a poor dad and he repented in front of 50,000. And I looked because I was on the platform just looking out there, I could see men looking, I really like this guy. They were just saying, finally, somebody is open. So be vulnerable. Don't be the answer, man, dad. Okay, we're all looking for practical tips and there's time for that, but if you're vulnerable, find a group that will accept your vulnerability and then you can hang with. Howard Hendricks, he's in the heaven, too. He said A man without a small group is an accident waiting to happen. So to the extent that you can build that in a local church or just have a battle buddy. My oldest son, he was in Afghanistan, wounded in a mortar attack and he's doing well now, but I remember, Joel, talk about the value of a battle buddy. Battle buddy covers you. I mean, it's life or death. Do you have someone like that? If you do, you're a smart dad. And are you vulnerable with that guy? I mean, even though he knows, you know, how you're doing. Why, Jeff, do women do this better than men? We got to get off the high horse and get down on the ground.Jeff Zaugg: [00:14:26] Yeah. So helpful. Let's go to research for a moment, because this is, I mean this marked decades of your work was research and then take the findings and equip dads with these findings. So there was a major study that you guys did that led to the Seven Secrets of Effective Fathers. Would you set up kind of how you found those seven secrets first and then we'll get into them?Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:14:45] Glad to. Did a big review. I've got metal file cabinets with all paper, about 2000 journal articles. I said, What are the simple things that define fatherhood in a way that we can move this forward? Then I created a survey, the Personal Fathering Profile, I sent this out to dads all over the country, about 10,000 of them. Then this is what was the big difference maker. We found a group of extraordinary dads. Why were they extraordinary? Not because they said, hey, I'm an extraordinary dad. No. We asked peers and friends that knew these dads to submit their names. And we didn't just take what one person said. We made sure they were on the list of three other people. And these strong fathers, we gave them this same profile. But we didn't stop there, Jeff. The Holy Spirit becomes flesh. We gave the profile to their wives. Holy smoke. And they had to have at least one child through the life course. So one child because it's easy to father when you're, you know, give them Tic Tacs and peanut butter and they're happy kids. Okay. You got good Tic Tac, I was watching. Jeff's smart. Anyway, so then what I did is analyze their scores and I clump together aggregating their wife's, there's their old oldest child and their scores. And then I tested that with this group of what I say are ordinary dads. Okay. Not that these ordinary dads weren't there, but these seven traits surface. So think of these are the seven traits of effective fathers.Jeff Zaugg: [00:16:25] Okay, So we're now going to launch into what they are. But I think it's important to say like 125,000 dads, this is roughly, right. Have gone through...Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:16:36] The Seven Secrets. Yeah.Jeff Zaugg: [00:16:36] So this is not only research based and delivered in ten languages around the world, but this is how many dads have already benefited from this work. So amazing. Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:16:44] Oh, yeah. That I know of.Jeff Zaugg: [00:16:47] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Probably more. That's how dads work is like we learn something then we share with three buddies and they never buy the book, right? So, so let's go through and we'll probably do this a little bit of fly over now, not the deep, deep version. But the first one is commitment, would you take us into that one? Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:17:02] Yeah. Very simply. What drives you to do the fathering that you want to do? It's that dedication. So, when it says train up a child in the way they should go. It's not meant to be, well, children have different personalities. That's a real misunderstanding, misunderstanding of Proverbs 22:6. It's train up, dedicate. So if you're a dedicated dad, you're going to be focused. And it's not just the way they want to go, it's in the right way. You know, Proverbs is full, you're either foolish or you're wise. You know, it's either white or it's dark. And and so you're focused. So what commitment is, is each year like you do once a month, just getting focused with the Lord, you are sitting down and saying, what is my commitment level? Is it where it needs to be? Because when the teen years comes, you'll, that's the time of the lowest fathering satisfaction, so in essence, that commitment. And so you're telling people, I want to be the best dad. That's what I love about dadAWESOME. You're saying, Hey, I could do a lot of things and you are going to do a lot of things. But first and foremost, are these four daughters in this wife God's blessed with.Jeff Zaugg: [00:18:19] And commitment, playing the game of Ultimate Frisbee, commitment is I keep running, I keep trying, and I know that I win or lose the game and I've stayed committed to that game and it's over. Commitment in fatherhood is there's no tangible results. You're just continuing to say, I'm in the game, I'm after their hearts. I'm in the game, with with really, it could feel like failure after failure with like, have I won? Have I lost? But it's just saying I'm after it. I'm after their hearts. I'm staying in it. I approach it with resolve and dedication. So, that's amazing. And it's simply, everyone can succeed at commitment. There's nothing that stops any of us from succeeding at commitment.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:18:49] No. No. And let's get the big, long picture. You're committed until you're six feet under, however you're going to be disposed of when you die. So once a father, you're always the father. And don't misunderstand, some of you may not have biological children, it makes no difference. Because you're a man, people are looking at you as a father figure.Jeff Zaugg: [00:19:12] And, last thing I would add to it is, it's contagious. If we're someone, if I'm a dad who commits and has resolve, is dedicated and says, this is how I approach fatherhood, I'm going to raise girls, in my case, four little girls with deep commitment.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:19:24] Yes, you are.Jeff Zaugg: [00:19:26] The second one. Know your kids.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:19:28] Yes.Jeff Zaugg: [00:19:28] Yeah. Okay. Explain.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:19:30] Okay. So, Jeff, If gave your, I gave you 80 bucks, 4 $20 bills and you pass them out to your daughters. A dad who knew their children knew that one of those girls is going to save that, another girl is going to do this, another girl is going to throw a party. You have to know what's going on in their life. So it's part personality, it's part spiritual gifts, it's part their future. You know, give me a dad's input to a group of vocational tests and other things that you can pull at. I will listen to the dad over and over because he sees things. He knows his children. And this is where we have to be vigilant because right now things move in nanoseconds. What are they watching? What are they listening to? Who are those friends? What happens when I left and took my wife out on a date and there was, you know, I'm not calling in the FBI, the Fathering Bureau of Investigation, but I am saying we can't be naïve. And so we need to bond with other dads. What are your teens struggling with? What are your school age kids, you know, friends and, you know, the temptations that are out there. That's knowing your child.Jeff Zaugg: [00:20:48] And they feel so loved when I want to know them and ask questions and say tell me more.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:20:54] Oh, come on. Yes. Yes.Jeff Zaugg: [00:20:55] My nine year old, I don't actually know the last couple of books she's read. I don't know what they were about. She loves to read. And that's just a simple, practical like, I want to know, tell me about this book. I did read one one book with her this year that, like, we had so much to talk about because I was reading it, she was reading it. So that's just a challenge to myself. The, the third of the Seven Secrets of Effective Fathers. Consistency. Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:21:19] Yeah. Predictability.Jeff Zaugg: [00:21:19] Yes. Yeah, tell me more about this one. Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:21:19] Yeah, Yeah. Okay. One time I had my kids, all five, they were little older, imitate me. Oh it was scary, Jeff. I thought., What I don't act like that. Oh, yeah, you do, Dad. If you're predictable, if your children know what to expect of you, if you keep your promises and this is a subsection of the importance of discipline and giving guidance. Consistency is that benchmark. Think of yourself as the Rock of Gibraltar. And before we had GPS, they used landmarks to mark a course. Your kids are going on a journey. You're a landmark relationally, spiritually and emotionally. And so that consistency is the predictability in who you are and your follow through.Jeff Zaugg: [00:22:05] Wow. And this one I'm struggling with right now. Living in the RV, changing spots different weeks, like from the one on one daddy daughter dates to the other, like consistent things. It's a wild, I mean, the days that we move the RV, this morning was one of them, like I'm not tender and patient with them in the first thing in the morning because I'm packing up the RV, pulling in the slides, leveling jacks. Goodness. So, so this is one that I don't want to just point to the future once I'm back at a house then I'll bring consistency. I think it's an important challenge for myself and for all of us dads to say, how can I bring in anchoring, bring in consistency so that they they just know I love being their dad and I'm helping kind of give them steadiness.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:22:43] Well, so I pick up from you, you're consistent in the messages you give your daughters. You know, I was working in prisons and I asked dads to write a letter to their dad. And you give them a pencil and paper. I mean, there's cussing, they break up the pencils because there's so much brokenness. I say, come on, stick with me, I've done this several times. And then we come back and we'd write a one ad for the type of dad they wish they'd had. And then I said, Write out the qualities, like we put it in the paper or Facebook ad or something like that. They wrote these crazy, beautiful things. So what they were doing is saying, in an aspirational way, I wished I would have, the number one thing, Jeff, that was common among those, it wasn't consistency because that wasn't in their vocabulary, but it was dependability. Someone that I can count on, someone that I can show, that will show up for me. That's consistency.Jeff Zaugg: [00:23:47] Thank you so much for joining us for this first half of my conversation with Dr. Ken Canfield. Next week, after Father's Day, we're going to dive into the second half, the next three parts of the Seven Secrets that he's unpacked and researched over all these years. And then we're actually going to go into the theme of being a grandparent. And it just it's helpful for us who are young dads to think about intentionality as a grandparent, because it's teamwork. Many of us do have help from either our parents or our wife's parents. And and thinking more strategically around teamwork and the approach of of and also just like starting with the end in mind, I want to think today about what would I be like, what am I going to be like in the future as a loving, intentional grandpa? So it's it's really helpful. It's a refreshing perspective on this topic. So guys, thank you for listening to show notes, all the conversation links, his books, fathers.com, The organization, movement he leads are all at dadawesome.org/282. Thanks again for listening this week. Happy Father's Day, guys. Praying for you. Have an amazing weekend. And remember, Father's Day is not about receiving like, hey, well done, just keep doing more of the same. Father's Day, let's turn it into dadAWESOME day. A day of action, a day of intentionality, a first day of an entire year ahead of saying I'm going to choose to pursue the hearts of my kids. I'm going to choose sacrifice, I'm going to choose service. I'm going to choose to bring awe and wonder and to see this role as a gift from God and I'm going to let my kids know, you're a gift, I love being your dad. Have a great week, guys.