Episode 283 Transcript (Dr. Ken Canfield: Part 2)Podcast Intro: [00:00:01] Being a great father takes a massive amount of courage. Instead of being an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a decent leader. The oldest dad in the world gave you this assignment, which means you must be ready for it. As a dad, I get on my knees and I fight for my kids. Let us be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. I want encounters with God where He teaches me what to do with my kids. I know I'm going to be an awesome dad because I'm gonna give it my all.Jeff Zaugg: [00:00:39] This is episode 283 of DadAwesome and my name is Jeff Zaugg. Guys, Happy Father's Day. Just a few days ago, over the weekend, we celebrated Father's Day. I want to remind you guys, we don't think about Father's Day as a moment to receive, hey, well done, good on ya, way to be a dad. We see Dad, We see Father's Day as DadAwesome day. A day of kicking into the next gear of intentionality. Turning more dials of, man, I'm going to be an intentional dad. I'm going to be a loving dad. I'm going to pray more for my kids. It's it's not a year of like I have to do more or I'm a bad dad. Not that at all. It's an opportunity to step into more because our kids, they're not thanking us today, but they will thank us later. If every year, Father's Day, we're like, No, no, it's DadAwesome day. So that's my, that's my encouragement, that's my prayer for you guys as we approach it that way. We approach each day, man, that's a gift that we get to be a dad. So today is the second half of my conversation with Dr. Ken Canfield, and last week, if you missed it, hit pause, go back. He founded the National Center for Fathering, fathers.com, in 1990. He's given about four decades to this work of intentional fatherhood. Thousands of interviews, thousands, I mean, he's been connected in so many ways in our country and way beyond, globally. So, so grateful, this is the second half of my conversation. We're going to pick right up with the next three of his Seven Secrets of Effective Fathers. Let's jump right back in, this the second half of my conversation, Episode 283, with Dr. Ken Canfield. Fourth one is protect and provide.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:02:26] Right. Well, these are the age old characteristics of dads.Jeff Zaugg: [00:02:31] Hunter, gatherer, right? Yeah.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:02:33] Yeah. You bring home the bacon and you protect from dangers that are out there. This surface that, not the ordinary dads we tested weren't doing this, but the effective fathers who were chosen by their peers and and leaders around them were doing it to a significant greater degree. It doesn't mean more money, It doesn't mean more guarding and, you know, going over the top is that they were attuned to the dangers of the world, particularly with four daughters. You got to face a lot of challenges coming up. And I've seen your daughters are beautiful. You know, you like the look in the eyes, you got some blue eyed, blond hair beauties. And and then, you know, the provisional role was having what they need. Not the extras. You know, Glen Elder, in his magisterial study of depression in children found this and this is very important. He looked after the depression of families who weren't touched by the Depression, they had a lot of cash, they were doing well and then he looked at other families in the San Francisco in the Oakland Bay area that had very little. The families that had very little but were intact and had a family system and a father involved, they actually fared better in adjustment as they matured simply because dad said, hey, we just have this, we're going to have to work together. And so it's not about the freaking stuff.Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:06] That's right.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:04:07] It is about your openness with your family and we're just going to make the best. And that doesn't mean you be cheapskate either.Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:14] Right.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:04:14] But within the means. And here we are. You know, we're sitting in America right now. You're sitting in northwest Arkansas. That's a boomtown because of some of the company's headquarters here. But it's not about that. It's elusive. It's a mirage. And dad, if you're running towards that, I guarantee it will disappear.Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:34] Yeah, it's an easy excuse to say I'm going to take that promotion and chase after this thing.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:04:39] Exactly.Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:39] Because of providing for the home front. And everyone that I interview in their sixties and their seventies wishes they could turn that dial back and not take the promotion back when they're in their forties. It's a very common thing. We'll jump to the next one. So love for your kids, Mom.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:04:57] Okay, Now, this is tough because I understand the fracture in family, but I do know this, working with a lot of dads that are divorced, having civil respect for the mother of that child. And how do I know that? And how did I tease that out from these dads? Well, simply because if there is a bitter mother, bitter mother after a divorce and when they talk down on the dad and so forth, it's devastating to the children.Jeff Zaugg: [00:05:24] Toxic.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:05:24] Well, flip it. If you are affirming and lifting up the woman who gave you the privilege of becoming a father and you're caring for her, as we see in Ephesians 5, Colossians 3 and other places, that bride is going to not only inform your fathering, but have the tight marriage that we need our children and grandchildren to see as models. You know, I just surveyed a bunch of grandchildren who are now adults, and I said, reflect on your grandparents. And this comes over and over, you know, it was so cool to see how my grandfather cared for my grandmother before she died and how they were married 50 years and vice versa. And so when we have the privilege to live with the mother of our children, that honor and respect endows our children with a sense of security and strength, that they can do it, too.Jeff Zaugg: [00:06:23] Yeah, it's interesting, I mean, if you're married number five, love for their mother links right back to number one, commitment. Your kids are seeing this commitment, but not a commitment because I have to because I'm married, I have to stick with, but the love for life like we actually how do we speak to you, how do we look at, how do we what's the affection level? So that's a that's amazing that I know that my girls are watching. I know they're watching. Number six is active listening.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:06:47] Okay. Now, this is something you can do that your children actually are going to be smarter than you.Jeff Zaugg: [00:06:55] For sure.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:06:55] Because they observe you. They know the idiosyncrasies. That doesn't mean they're going to have maybe more degrees or more knowledge, but as far as that relational intuition, as they observe you, that is, you know, part of their life. Now, if you active listen, that means you use these two things on the side of your head and the things on the front of your face, the thing on the front of your face less. The fathering sermon that, there is a place for it, but listening ears also give value and meaning. And so paraphrasing back when your girls are saying something or to make sure you understand or your boys taking time to have eye to eye, time where you're asking questions, not to interrogate, but just things like, you know, well, you go in and the room's dirty and so forth, and instead of saying your room's dirty, you could come in and say something like, Hey, I'm wondering why are things like this? It's softens, you know, the whole thing. And then listening to where they are is so important. And they will tell you.Jeff Zaugg: [00:08:08] Seeking to understand. I think, of what feels like a hurricane of my four little girls all trying to talk to me at the same time. And in our phase, like it's still very possible to show active listening in moments because then they'll feel so cared for in moments. But in the chaos at times, it's just like overwhelmed is just like all I can do is maybe catch myself to respond with the right tone versus the overwhelm. But yes, active listening. I feel that. And also from my marriage, I mean, that skill, how can I show the stranger such care and active listening, the person I love most be kind of impatient with her, it's wild. But that's it's easier to help the to do it with the stranger than with the person I love the most. So I'm challenged by all of these and have room to grow in all of these. The seventh of the Secrets of Effective Fathers, spiritual equipping.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:08:55] Right. Now, this surfaced not because we engineer the survey to bring this up, but the spiritual equipping of your children is something that you as a dad have a unique role in fulfilling. We know the story and the icon of the praying grandmother, a praying mother. Why don't we have more praying fathers and praying with their children? And then I think back just how these children, as you teach them, will actually open your eyes. Here I was one Sunday afternoon when my children were younger, we sat around, I read the book of Acts, and I thought it'd be really, you know, cool. So I said, and here's you know, Saul, he's he's on this, I don't know what it was, donkey or horse and he was going to he's going to go kill some Christians and he was one mad, and then all of a sudden a light just knocked that boy down. And and my daughter at that time, Sarah, was probably eight years old and she says to me, Jeff, Dad wasn't that cool how God used a laser. And I said, and I looked back in the Scripture, because you want to be accurate, you know, I said, Well, Sarah, I don't see if there was a laser here. And she looks at me, Jeff, straight up says, Oh, dad, it was a laser because it knocked him down and none of the ones that are with him. Oh my gosh, I'm like thinking, Holy smoke. And as I read the word, I see the sensitivity in children as I'm trying to teach, want to get, not just the Ten Commandments, but the Beatitudes, the fruits of the spirit. And they're picking things out and just saying, Oh, dad, that means this, this, and this is I'm trying to give some big theological discourse. So spiritual equipping is getting in there with them. And just opening up and making sure, you know, that you're tight with a faith community and church, I'm telling you.Jeff Zaugg: [00:10:59] And many of us, you know, the dad in, this was my family, he was not the primary leader for my mom, the spiritual leadership. So I didn't see that model of my dad stepping in. Yet, I get to step in with leadership and it's same with church. It was more like my mom, my dad supported. But he wasn't like championing let's go to church as a family. So I think a lot of us it is a change from what we experienced. But man, it even the statistics are out, if the dad takes their faith seriously the ripple effect is crazy. The exponentially more than if the mom takes the takes leadership in that area. I was going to ask before we go into talking about grandparenting, because I do think there's really some fun angles that we can go in to that. Is there any, if you're going to take an eight things, so you've got these Seven Secrets of Effective Fathering, to be DadAwesome, is there something else that you've learned, even since writing this, or the research for this, you're like, Oh, I would add this to the list?Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:11:52] Yeah, well, it's the eighth secret in the book Seven Secrets of Effective Fathering, and it's this guys. There's something that we don't know, and you're going to find out and you're going to tell Jeff, you're going to tell Ken, you're going to tell others. And it could be something as simple as well, you know, we hitched up the boat, we went fishing once a month regularly, we didn't catch fish, but we did it. And then you interview those children years later and said, my dad was so good, he he taught me how to bait a hook. He taught me how to cast and so forth. And so I think this happens every time a child is born. We don't know what we're going to get. Maybe you have a special needs child. There are secrets that you have got to share and teach us because we have no clue. And and I saw, this is not probably the best example, but I got to share this eighth secret to urban minority kids, having a child. One of my colleagues was in the birth room because she was nurturing this relationship. They were both under age. And so here's a 16 year old having a child and the father was 17. And they ask her to come in. And this is the eighth secret, when that baby was put in this 17 year old boy's hands, okay. He grew up fatherless, so did his, you know, they weren't even married, and so you get the picture, okay. He holds that baby and he he walks and you could see this aura come over him and just see he was having something deep in his heart going. He walks up to the mother of the child and says, wow, this is we got to do this again. Now, I know you didn't see that coming, but it's like my colleague said, Ken, there's some mystical about this father. That's the eighth secret. Now, we're not encouraging that, but that's how depth is is played out. So for you, Dad, you tell Jeff, you tell Ken, you tell fathers.com, because these secrets will surface as the Heavenly Father brings them to mind.Jeff Zaugg: [00:14:16] I love that perspective of we're mining out secrets, treasures, tactics. We're mining them out, looking for them, but then share them. Don't keep them for yourself. We need to share with others. Which, again, is the ripple effect, it keeps all of us leaning in versus trying to make our way through fatherhood. Like the idea of surviving the dad life like so much pain gets passed forward if we try to survive that season of busyness with kids versus treasuring. And I get that from everything that I read from you. What I want to do now is create a time capsule for myself, I'm truly, I want to be the best grandpa.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:14:53] Okay.Jeff Zaugg: [00:14:53] I could ever be for my four girls and their future. I mean, I pray for these four boys who got to marry this girls all the time.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:15:00] Sure. Okay.Jeff Zaugg: [00:15:00] And in fact, I'd cheer, like partially, why am I leading DadAwesome? It's, I'm praying that maybe somehow something will trickle down to those four boys dads.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:15:09] They will. They will.Jeff Zaugg: [00:15:10] So, so as I, as I think about a time capsule to be the best grandpa ever, what things would you share with me now that I can know for the future? I'll store them away, I'll listen to them for when I become a Grandpa. But also, that might have form, informed decisions I'm making today with my oldest is only nine. So, so really this could be after any principles you've learned as you've said this chapter I'm going to really help grandparents. Give me what you got.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:15:34] Three simple things and there's much more, and I've written significantly on this to go to grandkidsmatter.org and you can find those. First of all, Heritage, these things that you're collecting on this road trip are going to be priceless in the museum that you're going to have when you get old. Now, when I think museum, it's just your house. You got these trinkets, you know, so-and-so lost a tooth when we were going up a mountain or, you know, something happened on the beach. What we need to give is heritage, a sense of history. And Marshall Duke, a researcher, noted that teens that have a sense of history know where they came from and have connection to the grandparents, the grandfather, in this case, they have more resiliency during the teenage years because they know their identity. Okay, that's one, love it. Second is this, Get ready. The apostle Paul never had biological children. He is probably the most influential spiritual father on the planet. Okay. And in 2 Corinthians, he says this, make sure that you understand the Ministry of Reconciliation. Okay, when you're a grandparent, there are time for do-overs because you didn't do it all right the first time. And grandchildren just think the sun rises and sets on you. But it's a time to, where you can go and make anything that isn't, you know, what it could be, right with your children. And I tell you, it's very simple. You just go to your child that has now children and you're a grandparent, you say, Hey, I did the best I could being a dad and if there's stuff that we need to talk about, I'd like to hear about that. And then you sign yourself up and tell them, I just want to be the best grandparent I can be. How can I do that? And so it causes a reconciling, a reconciling spirit, you know, in that child and that Ministry of reconciliation, because families are complex. I mean, your children aren't going to marry other perfect children, you know, And so you're going to have things to grind through in the sense that it's difficult and it's arduous. The third thing is teaching. You're a teacher until your God, what are you going to teach and pass on? How are you going to bring, what I call, proverbs, parables, those things that and prayer that are so important. How are you as a grandparent going to bring that into the family system and secure it? And when we get this, what I call generational strength and solidarity, it brings a joy not only to you as a grandparent, but you can feel that you're getting ready to get promoted and at that promotion, you're going to see somebody that will say, you did the best you could. Well done, my son.Jeff Zaugg: [00:18:50] Wow, what a gift. I and I truly like care for today, but I'm really thinking about give it you know, 10, 20 years in the future, Like I want to be that for my girls.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:19:01] You will.Jeff Zaugg: [00:19:02] The the the other piece that I wanted to just ask about this is, is how how can we, if there's if there's someone who's not connected right now, there is that fracturing and it feels like the wall is too big...Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:19:15] Oh yes.Jeff Zaugg: [00:19:16] What would you share for like, man like, keep trying. What would you share on that side?Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:19:21] Okay, real simple. I wrote a short piece In the Heart of a Father is simply come to terms with where you are and don't look back, but look forward. Now if you have clean up to do that is understandable. I mean, if you cause havoc and and, you know, maybe broke a marriage, you need to go back and repent. People are just drawn to repentance and vulnerability. But getting back on it, I call it the I cans and a couple of these attributes are in there. First, reaffirm whatever involvement you can. Okay? And it may be distant because there may be miles of of brokenness, but hang in there because they will come around. They will come around. The second, just fulfill the little promises that you make, whatever they may be, and then tune yourself in to the awareness of what they're facing in their, you know, world as it is right now. And then lastly, you know, nurture in positive ways. And those are the, I cans, involvement, consistency, awareness and nurturance. You can get back, you can, what I'd say, rebuild and regain, because part of our heritage and history is there is a resurrection and it doesn't have to be when you when you die, okay, you can resurrect relational depth, but it's costly, emotionally, it's scary. And find, again, a battle buddy that can walk with you. Jeff Zaugg: [00:21:04] That's huge. So it's been five and a half years of DadAwesome and I've been hearing really over all those years I've been hearing about you, Ken, and about the 30, is it 35, 40 years? How many how many years is it of fatherhood work? Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:21:16] Yeah. 35. Yeah.Jeff Zaugg: [00:21:16] So I wanted to just say this, thank you. Thank you. As it truly the landscape of like we need more people charging going after it but also I want to be someone who says I'm sticking with it. This is the most important work. So I just wanted to say thank you. Your modeling what I pray is true about me.Dr. Ken Canfield: [00:21:34] And for anybody listening, we're going to pray that for them. So, Lord, right now, Jeff and I join together, if there's any brokenness, give insight and healing that's from above. Lord, reveal the eighth secret. Whatever they are doing that's having fruit, bless them. And we just want to say we're proud of the men that are standing up and doing your will. They are making a difference. We're just privileged to be a part of this. So lift them up, Lord, in Jesus name. Amen.Jeff Zaugg: [00:22:10] Guys, thank you so much for being a part of DadAwesome, this week, for the second half of my conversation with Dr. Ken Canfield. All the show notes, the conversation links, the transcripts are at dadawesome.org/283. I want to encourage you guys to get a hold of Dr. Ken Canfield book. He's got so many resources. Check out fathers.com for a weekly blog, podcasts, lots and lots of resources, all the books, and they're just they're really saying, they're going after the same mission as DadAwesome, which we love continuing to connect you guys with the broader resource vault. So so go after fathers.com to check that out. Thank you for leaning in this week. Thank you for choosing, man, I'm not going to settle in the area of fatherhood. I'm going to continue to turn the dials of intentionality, pursue the hearts of my kids. Praying for you guys this week. Cheering for you. Have an amazing week.