Troy Mangum – Episode 184
Troy Mangum [00:00:02] If God, in his wisdom, said, I want to give you a child, or I want to give you a wife. What are you saying? God is just stupid and he should have never done that because I sin, or I messed up. There is always hope and it’s you lack training and you don’t know how to fight and you don’t know how to overcome. Why don’t you humble yourself and love your family enough to humble yourself to say I need help.
Podcast Welcome [00:00:36] Welcome to DadAWESOME. You’ve joined a movement of intentional Christian dads who are adding life to the dad life. Thanks for taking a courageous step towards learning and growing and being mentored as you become DadAWESOME for your kids. On this podcast, my dad, Jeff Zaugg, interviews intentional dads from all around the world as he explores the path of becoming DadAWESOME.
Jeff Zaugg [00:01:06] Gentlemen, welcome back to DadAWESOME. This is episode one hundred and eighty four and I have my guest, Troy Magnum, joining me this week. But before I introduce him, I want to let you guys know we are switching over the DadAWESOME nudge. So there’s a text message. We’ve been shooting out for three years. And our service provider, the tool we used for text messaging, we’re winding that down at the end of July, so the end of this month. Right now, it’s the last episode with that old platform, the new text message tool, we have several hundred dads who have said, I want to be nudged, I want to be encouraged, I want to have prayer ideas, ideas to connect with the hearts of my kids, ideas to remind me to be an intentional father. You just have to send a text message text at 651-370-8618. Just text the word dad to that number. It’s in the show notes as well. And you will be signed up for about two text messages each week. So we’re not texting every day, but we are encouraging you with a nudge to become DadAWESOME for your kids. So today, the episode this week, I have the author of the book Fatherhood Face Plants. Joining me, Troy Magnum. He has become a friend. I’ve known him for a couple of years now, so thankful for his heart and passion to reach men, to set really to set a wildfire, to set men on fire, to live out of his passions of God’s purpose for your life. And he hosts the Kindling Fire podcast. He, like I mentioned, is the author of the book Fatherhood Faceplant. In fact, if you want a little bonus content, there’s three extra minutes of our conversation at the very end. And we did a face plant tag team where he shared a story. I shared a story. We each shared four stories of actual face plants that we’ve taken where we’ve heard ourselves or our kids. So stick around to the end if you want to catch that portion. But I’m going to jump right in. This is my conversation. Episode one hundred and eighty four of DadAWESOME with Troy Magnum.
Jeff Zaugg [00:03:13] We were in Colorado just last week, and we drove a section north of Granby, Winter Park, where the fires went nuts last last October, November and just seeing the devastation of these fires, I mean, in some ways it was beautiful. In some ways it was just like, oh, no, Rocky Mountain National Park like this, this scorched. Right. But I know that you’re passionate about being a fire starter, being a difference maker versus being a passive dad. I know this is a passion of yours, but I’d love for you to talk about. I think all of us are lighting fires intentionally or accidentally or being fire starters. But is it for good or harm? And would you just talk about why why you are so passionate about being a difference maker, a fire starter and the impact of that?
Troy Mangum [00:03:57] So it comes back to really what I would consider a word from the Lord many years ago. So the Lord really instilled in me very long ago that me as a dad was a part of a calling that he had on me not just as I’m a dad, but like I’m going to teach you about being a dad. And then not only that, he gave it like in a missional way. He basically said through you and your story, fatherless sons who have become my fathers for generations to come. And and there are so many men that are dads that are fatherless and and they need to know that they can become amazing, incredibly amazing fathers with God training them as father. But the training, it’s not like it’s not like it’s not easy training. We’re talking like seal level training from God, especially depending on where you start. And a lot of that story in the book and the lessons I learned is that kind of like octagon of the the training of of me as a dad over 20 plus years of him just investing in me, showing me over and over and over again all these different lessons. And so that’s why I’m so passionate about it, because it’s my story.
Jeff Zaugg [00:05:20] And our story is multiplied forward into our kids, and that’s the that’s the beauty, is that the work of these couple of decades is directly like it’s contagious to your kids. They’re going to have that as a leaping off point and they’re going to invest forward and experience a father, a Heavenly Father, is fathering them. And so,
Troy Mangum [00:05:38] you know, I was looking for an epic life. God was looking for an epic generations for me. And afterwards, you know, I’m looking for, oh, God, I want to do this. I want to do that or I want to. And I’m always, like, active. And God’s like, look, I’m looking to build a generationallly something amazing. Like think of the Grahams, right. Billy Graham, Franklin Graham, the Graham family, like the Graham family, is an entity. Right. That is a big, it’s not just Billy Graham. It’s Billy and those that have come after and what that means. And so that’s kind of what God was up to in my family. And I believe he wants to be up to in all families. But he’s looking for the men that would say, sign me up for that. I want that
Jeff Zaugg [00:06:25] Well and speaking of the generations, I know you have you’ve talked about that there’s treasures in our heritage and we get to give as a gift to our kids. And I know one of those is now you’re actively not only your own kids, but all these young men. You’re taking a treasure from your mom being Native American and instilling treasures from that rich heritage. Would you share a little bit about that concept of finding treasures and giving them forward?
Troy Mangum [00:06:51] Yeah, absolutely. So if you’ve been around any of the Eldridge material or any men’s ministry, a lot of times you get this sort of like Scottish Irish background stuff. So things and and Braveheart and swords and all this ethno European background. Right. Which is all great. But the reality is, why are these movies resonating? Why are these swords resonating? Mostly because in their heritage, you know, they have some link back there that are like that. God said, see this? This is a part of your DNA. This is a part of your identity. This is a part of what I want to redeem and bring in a new way. So my heritage with being a Native American was always on my mom’s side and went my my dad’s side is not Native American. And the Lord, like, arrested me about two years ago, no about a year and a half ago. And basically through some some vision and some experiences where he’s like, I want you to go back to your Native American heritage. I have something for you. And when I started digging, digging, digging, the wealth of male men, training other men how to be godly men or or good tribesmen or good chiefs or good men for the community is just through the roof and the biblical analogies are over the top. And so then God said, OK, take all of that. And now I want you to to focus in on something that will help other young men from this. So so we all have a back story that God, if we’re willing to let God take us there, he’ll take your treasures out of you. That will be so deep and rich because it’s a generations before you. It’s not about you. It’s about you inheriting something God put back way back in generations before you. The vision that he gave me give me a lot. But the one that’s relevant to what you’re saying is I was digging a hole and it’s really, really wide. And it got really, really narrow at the very bottom. And then I hit this water source and the water source wasn’t super clean and it was clean, but it was it was muddy because it was coming up through the dirt. And then I had this next vision. It was my children building well around this water source. And then the Lord said, that is your Native American heritage. And so what the Lord was basically saying was, somebody’s got to dig it and it may not be all, well, nice and easily easy in the beginning, but then the next generation can pick up on that and build something that’s super useful. Pulling from that heritage.
Jeff Zaugg [00:09:24] Your story. And thank you for the first three, four chapters of your book, just really dive deep into pain from your dad, but also just your journey of maybe passing forward some of what you experienced. Yeah, not not intentionally, but the hurts forward to your your kids. And I was curious if you’d be willing to share it could be any any of the stories, but a story of pain that you caused your kids and and what God showed you. Now you’re looking back. You could be like, man, I want to share that story to help other dads take a different course. Would you be willing to kind of go there to at least part of your story to share with us?
Troy Mangum [00:09:59] Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up in a very angry home as a child. I was very actually a very frightful child because there was so much volatility, anger and abuse going on in my background. And so I never really saw modeled dealing with stress in a healthy way. In a whole way, or what I would consider to be a godly masculine way, it was mostly anger and outburst. And and so as I sadly enough, I was in seminary trying to follow God, trying to go after God in a high stress, low income trailer in Columbia, South Carolina. You know, in this like married housing, which was all trailers, so and studying the Old Testament or something. And and my daughter was was continuing to mess with this music music box I had. And I kept telling her, no, no, no, she’s young. She’s less than two. And in my frustration, I went in to grab her and I end up grabbing her so hard to pull her away from the thing that I dislocated her shoulder or I misplaced it. And it just the amount of sickness that I felt because I was just like, I cannot believe that I that I’ve done that. And one of the things that I highlight in the book is that feeling of regret. Some men know it, and they know it when they’ve crossed that line, they thought they would never, ever cross and they cross it. Now what? And in a lot of what the book is about is about, you know, that whole idea of getting back up and becoming the dad your kids need so much of the storyline with God is to get back up, to receive forgiveness, to seek reconciliation, to receive wholeness, to do whatever it takes to become a man that God wants you to be for your children and for your own self and marriage and et cetera. And so that is such a crucial crossing point because men so many times out of guilt and shame, they retreat and and the kids are just like, OK, I guess I guess this whole dad thing’s over for you now, huh?
Jeff Zaugg [00:12:22] Well, and the the idea of a faceplant for an extreme athlete or someone that’s just out having fun, like we don’t like if we’re the kind of dads that take a fall and stay down, the ripple effect of pain is multiplied so many times over. And in your story, I mean, the face plant was significant. The separation, with your wife was a long period, it was most people would walk at that point like it’s compounded face plants, which really does open up. Like the fact that this is a charge that you’re leading right now is just such hope for every single one of us, like, hey, we all can be difference makers and it does not matter. There’s that the passage that you you highlighted in First Corinthians one twenty seven. But God chose to use the but God statements of like, no, no, it’s not about that, but God tend the focus on him. So I love that. But would you even go a little further into like the decision to get back up and just help give us perspective on in fact, I’ll have you tell this story because your son or daughter asked you, does every dad leave?
Troy Mangum [00:13:29] Oh, gosh. Just like. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I basically was. So, Jeff, you’re referring to the time separation with my wife and I. We were separated for two years at one time. And the story the book opens up with basically me. There was a situation where even though we were separated, I think eight months at the time, my wife needed something. And so she asked me to come over and I got to put the kids to bed like I used to. And in that, one of my sons basically asked me in a very innocent, loving way. I think he was probably I want to say he was probably seven, seven or eight. And he he asked a very sincere question and he said, do all daddies have to leave? And which breaks every dad’s heart know, because it’s and I basically say there, it’s just like, you know, I couldn’t get into all the complexities that led to our separation at the time. He was too young and it was not appropriate, but it was a such as sincere. It was is like she was basically saying, is this what I should expect? And I remember just lovingly saying, you know what? With God, everything’s possible, you know, it’s it’s possible and we are living miracles like God redeemed that situation. We got reconciled, our family got reconciled, we’re still together today. And and I think that the thing that is so that I carry a banner for so much is that you pass on as a dad, you pass on who you are more than what you know. You can know the right things to do. You can know the scriptures that say you should do this, you can know a lot of things, but you will pass on who you are. And in God is so much about who you are at a heart level. And and and David is I love David because he really screwed up and and and but but David, God redeemed David and God redeemed things that David did because God David had a heart after God. He was like, I’m willing to go there. And and so anyway, that that story ends well now because, hey, you know, we’re all we’re all back together and we all have God’s redeemed all those relationships. But that at that time it looked extremely bleak, you know,
Jeff Zaugg [00:15:58] so we’re “fix it dads.” Most of us are fix it, give me tools, give me tactics. And what you just said a moment ago is, is that it’s far less about the tools and tactics. Though there are some real practical things you do share in your book. But there that there’s a dad listening right now that that is right on that edge of like who I am. They’re not proud of answering the question who I am. They’re like, this is not good for my kids. In fact, I’ve even heard I’ve heard friends say my family is better off without me. If you had gone to that level, how would you encourage all of us to No, there is a step. You’re not beyond the love of God. How how do you encourage us to actually, like, relook at and believe that the who I am, it can be walking in the direction of experiencing healing?
Troy Mangum [00:16:46] Well, I mean, first off, I’ll try not to get too emotional here, but your family is not better off without you. I mean, you got to hear that. If God, if God, in his wisdom said, I want to give you a child or I want to give you a wife, what are you saying? God is stupid, you know, and and he should have never done that because I sin or I messed up like you were you were absent. That is an absolute lie from Satan, and you should absolutely reject it. Now, you might say, well, look at all the evidence of how awful I am and I just go crawl in a hole. And so much of what I’m that I write about in that book is saying, get out of the hole. Learn that you are loved by God. One hundred percent. And because of that, there is always hope. And if you lack training and you don’t know how to fight and you don’t know how to overcome and you don’t know how to do all these things, why don’t you humble yourself and love your family enough to humble yourself, to say I need help? And so, I mean, that’s a bit of a like because it’s so insidious, it feels so true, it’s just like, oh yeah it does, it can lead to suicide. It surely can lead to male passivity and dads retreating. And I mean, I basically say in the book that, you know, Dad, guilt is the number one reason why dads just completely check out of the family because they know they screwed up. And this whole book is like, look, that that is not the end of the story. You get back up, you do what God’s called you to do. You learn how to do it, you do it with other men and and you’ll see the promises of God fulfilled that yes, the humble will be raised up. Will you be humble?
Jeff Zaugg [00:18:38] That’s the strong ownership challenge is what you just laid. Take ownership. Take ownership. You’re not a victim. Yes, take ownership. You have a Heavenly Father that’s given you ownership to step in and be that dad. I love the two images of you will be a wall or you will be the wind, an inspiration or a barrier. This is all this is your language. But would you expound on those two options?
Troy Mangum [00:19:03] Yeah. So so basically what I am saying there is that when when you look at your children kind of falling behind you and let’s say they want to have a sincere relationship with God or they want to have sincere growth as a person, what are you going to be in their life? Are you going to be a wall they have to scale over because you never did it. You kept lying. You kept looking at pornography, you kept this. You kept doing whatever it is you do. And now they’ve got to scale over that to get to where God called them to be or you’re going to be wind in their sails that says, you know, it’s like, hey, look at how forgiving God is. Look how good God is. Look how much hope there is. Look how amazing life is. And you just blow wind in their sails because God has called all of our children into wonderful, great things. And we can either be barriers to them because of the choices that we’ve made. And I’m not talking about sin of yesterday. I’m talking about the decisions you make today. Right. Just because you send him my whole books about face plants, it’s not a great story about me. It’s a pretty awful story about me. But it’s a great story about God. It’s a great story about God. It’s like, oh, my gosh, is God so powerful that he can do take a wreck of a man and make him where I am today, which is not even close to that anymore, even though I’ve had to, you know, have all these reasons, you know. So anyway, so that’s the analogy there is you want to be you want to be the wind. You don’t want to be a wall.
Jeff Zaugg [00:20:38] And back to that point about tools and tactics like I think often we feel like, well, I’ve never encountered this challenge. I have never had an eight year old before. I’ve never had this this challenge or this personality of a child. We prayed earlier, not by wise or persuasive words, but by a demonstration of God’s power. I believe that over every dad listening that it’s not the tool, the perfect words that we say it’s not the perfect, but we need a demonstration of God’s power. And I was out for a bike ride just yesterday and my my gears kept slipping. I had no power. I no power. I couldn’t get to that next level of power. What would you say is like if you were going to deposit like this is how you add power to your fatherhood journey, like what are just amp us up a little further? I’m like, this is what matters most, man.
Troy Mangum [00:21:26] There’s so many things I can say. First off, parenting is frontier. And if you’re if you are if you have hesitations in your peddling, in your analogy, that usually has to do with a missed…. There is there are things that needs to be shored up in you to say it again. As I said it before, you pass on who you are more than what you know you want to be the whole, the most whole, healed, healthy in every sense of the word, man that you can pass on to. Now, how do you become that? You yield yourself to God’s training. God is extremely interested in training you, and so it doesn’t have to be this sort of like, well, I don’t know. And I feel ill equipped and and it’s all about me as if I’m in this universe alone and there’s no God in the universe that wants to help me become a better dad. It’s like that’s not even true. Like, are you willing? It’s really more of an issue of are you willing and aware that this is offered to you, this training module. You look in any scripture, any man in the Bible, you can say they went to training, they went through. And a lot of that training has to do with difficulty sometimes and challenges and putting yourself in the frontiers of I’ve never been here. I’ve never done this. I don’t have the skill. None of that intimidates God. And if you yield yourself to God, he will put you in situations that are above your head, above your pay grade, above your talent, above your skill intentionally to help you learn skills, talents, abilities, confidence so that you can be like, OK, thank you, God, I just expanded my income and my job or I just did this or I just did that. And I’ve never done that. God, when I was like I was a skater, punk, anti authority person. My kid joins home school football league. Who’s the head coach? Me. I’m still looking at a freaking piece of paper to be like, what’s that called? Oh, that’s a outside what? Like I’m like, you know, am I faking it? No, I’m trying to step into something that I’m like, Yeah, I’m absolutely I’ll be I’ll be the head coach of football team. God help me because I don’t even know the position names.
Jeff Zaugg [00:23:51] Amazing. I talk about Frontier, but. But that’s it. That’s it. Just being willing in so many areas to say I’m expecting it to be frontier, I’m expecting not to have a trail map, but I do believe we have a compass. And I actually every morning I have my compass and my Bible, my girls see this. And part of it is I can’t underline it the straight I use it as a straight edge, but part of it’s a part of it’s a like a reminder that we have a compass, but not I usually talk about IKEA directions like we don’t have that. I don’t want that. I need a direction, a compass though. And that is where you said it’s the becoming a son.
Troy Mangum [00:24:24] Yes, that’s exactly right. You said I should I should ask you that question. You said it’s so much simpler. It’s truly it is becoming a son. Become a son first, guys. Yeah. Like, it’s hard to be the man and deliver, and come and all these things and be completely empty. You have no sense of identity and no sense of love from God. And I mean, it’s just hard to deliver on that front. You can fake it, but you want it to be the real deal. And it starts with sonship.
Jeff Zaugg [00:24:53] I have only a few mentors and friends that have written books before and I read reading. I told you read about about 60 percent. So I haven’t finished yet. But I know the gift that you have deposited in me just from that first half of the book like like you you went there in all the areas. You went there and said, my story, my testimony is going to fuel other people to go there as well. So I just want to say thank you. Thank you. And I am in the show notes. It’s going to be linked all over the place, how to get how to get your book. But I wanted to give you just a moment, last words. Just any anything else you’re like is a charge, which I feel like you’ve charged me up. You’ve charged some already. But anything else that you’d want to just share with us deposited into us before I ask you to pray for all of us?
Troy Mangum [00:25:35] Yeah, absolutely. So I’m going to I’m going to tell you a story or a little analogy that God kind of gave me. And basically it was it’s a, picture a house like an old and in the south you’ve got like Savannah, Georgia, and Charleston, South Carolina, and this old old house, one story picket, small picket fence, like up to your waist. And it’s beautiful. It’s white, but there’s paint peeling everywhere and all the windows have rocks thrown through them. And and it looks like there’s these people outside just throwing rocks through the windows and you’re inside and and you can hear all the noise and all the the the breaking glass. Well, sometimes that’s what it feels like when you’re fighting against sin. It’s extremely visceral, like it’s just like unrelenting. You feel like demons are on your front doorstep. In this case, they’re outside of the fence. The fence represents you being a Christian and them can’t cross into your property, but they can sure throw a lot of rocks that you hear crashing and affect you. You and it feels very visceral. Fast forward to another scene, I think, of Dr. Seuss, weird little hill, all beautifully green with weird flowers. And there’s this really funky, beautiful house on the top of this hill. And it has a fence, but it’s way, way, way, way, way down at the bottom with all this beautiful green grass between you and that fence and and you’re out on the porch. You have a cup of coffee, sun shining in, and you see these little black dots way down at the bottom and and they’re doing something. But you can’t even tell them what what they’re doing. And and this is the house on the hill. And so this is where God is taking all families if the dad is willing to go. And what that means is that those are the same little demons that were throwing rocks at your other house, your old house, your old man, your old way. But now they’re so far from you. And for you to step into sin and to step in the areas that are going to destroy your family, you would have to take your wonderful cup of coffee and the sunny, beautiful day and walk way down the hill, way out to the edge. And there you would have to engage in sin. And some men believe that that life is not possible because they live in the other house and they think, I will never, ever, ever get out. And I’m going to tell you my testimony is I live on the house, on the Hill right now by the grace of God. And I’m going to tell you and I’m going to promise you, if you will go on the journey with God, he will movie your whole family to that house on the hill and you can live an incredible life and leave an incredible legacy for your kids. And it doesn’t have to be all this sin that you can’t overcome. But it’s a process.
Jeff Zaugg [00:28:21] It’s freedom. And that’s that’s my dream. And what God has, that’s the treasure in the field that I sold everything and said I’m going to go buy. And that’s the field. And that’s what we are. We are clearly brothers in the fact that we are cheering for each other allies. And I want to say thank you and that that image, that imagery is is powerful and it’s accessible to every single one of us. And I I want that for every dad listening. Would you say a short prayer for all of us?
Troy Mangum [00:28:47] Oh, absolutely. Lord, I thank you that you are for Dads. God it was your amazing idea to make any dad that’s listening a dad and so Lord I thank you that you know he who began a good work in you will complete that work. And I pray that the listeners on this podcast Lord will be willing to yield to you. And I know you don’t overwhelm us. You give us one thing. So Lord, I pray you’ll show them the next thing. What is the next thing that you want to be? Offer them as the next training module for them to kind of step into going from that house that’s all beat up to a beautiful house on a hill full of the peace of God and the joy and laughter that you want to provide their home. And so help them know that next step. And thank you so much. God, In Jesus’ name, Amen.
Jeff Zaugg [00:29:39] Thank you so much for joining us this week for episode one hundred and eighty four of DadAWESOME, all the conversation notes, the action steps, the transcripts are all at DadAWESOME.org/184. Troy Magnum’s book Fatherhood Face Plants. How to get back up and be the Dad, Your Kids Need. It’s available linked in the show notes. His website, his book website on Amazon. So highly recommend this book. It is a rea,l raw, honest – this is his journey. He’s so transparent about this. It does not make sense that he would be a man who’s who’s chasing his kids hearts, who has a loving he’s still married, does not make sense with his back story. But it’s a testimony of God’s faithfulness. I mentioned this earlier about the jump to just three minutes of faceplant tag team back and forth. We just had some fun in this conversation. I thought I’d share with you guys. These are real stories of us hurting ourselves or our kids.
Jeff Zaugg [00:30:35] Barefoot water skiing. My toe caught. I went down. I need myself in my forehead and had a huge egg on my forehead. So there’s one.
Troy Mangum [00:30:43] My wife says, hey, don’t touch that baby up. It will upset it’s stomach. I say, Oh, no, it’s fine. Baby throws up in my mouth.
Jeff Zaugg [00:30:52] BMX bike ramp on the end of a dock. I went to ramp off, but the bike caught on the dock, rail on the way off and just slapped me, just slapped me on the water and tangled legs and bike into water.
Troy Mangum [00:31:05] Yo, I’m on a half pipe. I’m learning how to drop in. It’s about 13 feet up with about three feet of vert. And I drop in and I just go straight to the floor faceplant.
Jeff Zaugg [00:31:19] That’s a lot harder than water.
Jeff Zaugg [00:31:23] Yeah, wakeboarding. And if you catch that front edge, it’s to it just like it’s like this whiplash. I’m six foot seven. So is a whiplash down and you just don’t want to catch an ear drum.
Troy Mangum [00:31:34] We are on our boat and my my younger son is on the whatever floaty thing. I’m bringing him around and I forget to tell him, hey, just just hang off you small. After he sticks his foot in there, he flips over a got his foot in and then he disappears and he never comes back up. And we were like, oh my gosh. And it turns out that he was getting drug well while his foot was caught, everything was fine and he was good. But it was like, I will never I was like, you never put your foot in any of these things.
Jeff Zaugg [00:32:09] Right? Right. Not in water when the boats go in. And then my last one, I have to give you one more. So we’re even. So my last one, my daughter’s on my shoulder. She’s like to my garage is only like six and a half foot. I’m six seven, as I said. And I walked her. She had she had her little bike helmet on. But I put her right into the front of my garage and her head hits and it was just a moment of forgetting, I had to run for something. And she was on my shoulders. I smacked her. I face planted her in the side of my house.
Troy Mangum [00:32:36] My youngest daughter has a friend over. It’s getting to be dusk, I think. Oh, let’s let’s let’s go inside. Maybe we can throw the Frisbee. Well, it turns out to be dark. I throw the Frisbee at her friend. It’s so dark she can’t see it. It smacks her straight in the face. And I’m like I’m the epic dad babysitter right now.
Jeff Zaugg [00:32:55] Frisbee in the face is just it’s always blood. It’s always blood. Lip her nose. Oh, it’s so fun. So for me, the reason I came up with that game I’ve never played that game before is because of your book. You know, you played into Faceplant, which again, we have so many stories of faceplant, but your book, Fatherhood Faceplant, How to get back up and be the Dad your kids need. Troy, thank you for writing this book.
Jeff Zaugg [00:33:21] So that was just a little game that we played back and forth. And again, Troy Magnum’s book, Fatherhood Faceplant. You can pick that up. It’s linked in the show notes. Guys, thanks for joining us this week. Thank you for saying. I’m not done growing. I’m not done learning. I want to be a dad who leads on the home front, who says I’m going to connect with the hearts of my kids. I’m going to become DadAWESOME this week. Let’s go have a great week with our kids.