Pablo Ceron [00:00:02] And at that moment, I have two choices, either I go back to that orphan mentality, I have to figure this out on my own and I don’t know how, or father, I am your son. You are my father. Would you father me?
Podcast Intro [00:00:23] Welcome to DadAWESOME. You’ve joined a movement of intentional Christian dads who are adding life to the dad life. Thanks for taking a courageous step towards learning and growing and being mentored as you become DadAWESOME for your kids. On this podcast, my dad Jeff Zaugg, interviews intentional dads from all around the world as he explores the path of becoming DadAWESOME.
Jeff Zaugg [00:00:53] Welcome back to DadAWESOME. My name is Jeff Zaugg, and today this is episode one hundred and eighty nine with Pablo Ceron. And so last week, episode one hundred and eighty eight was the first 30 minutes of my conversation with Pablo Ceron. He runs an amazing ministry called Wild Sons. And if you missed last week, I would just recommend pause. Now go back, listen to Episode one hundred and eighty eight before you listen to today’s conversation, because we’re going to pick up right midstream. We’re going deep, fast. And the setup is important because we were just talking about the false self. We were talking about really the topic of freedom. What is the baggage? What is the identity? That’s just wrong. It’s not our Heavenly Father. It’s hard for us. We were talking about, man, how do we not live in that identity and with that baggage, but how do we operate in freedom as Sons of God? He’s for us and he’s spoken life over us. And that’s – it’s a big deal. We’re going to pass, as dad’s we’re going to pass pain down to our kids. If we are not healed and made whole and if we don’t receive the identity of sonship, we’re operating as a servant or as an orphan. We’re we’re going to pass pain on to our kids. And again, that’s part of the reason the Fathers for the Fatherless bike ride exists. We do something very hard physically. We bike one hundred miles so we can set ourselves up in our heart up to be ready to do some of the inner work of, as dads we want to do the hard inner work to walk in freedom. So we’re going to jump right in here. This is Pablo Ceron. This is episode one hundred and eighty nine. And he’s going to pick right up where he left off last week. Let’s go after it.
Pablo Ceron [00:02:34] The beauty of the journey of restoration and the dismantling of that false self that needs to fight against everyone who will try to wrong me is that Jesus comes to Isaiah, in Isaiah 61, which is the scripture that Jesus uses the first time he goes to the temple. And to describe his mission is I have come to heal the broken hearted and to set the captives free. And that little Jeff, his heart broke at some moment, as in our example today, so little every one of us had our hearts broken at some point and Jesus wants to heal that place. So, Jesus, I invite you into this place in my heart that feels wronged, where life is unfair, where this is always done to me. Would you come into this place? And he may bring a memory, oh, I remember when my mom gave away my toy and I told her that I loved it and I didn’t want to get rid of this toy yet, and I invite you, Jesus, into this place. And then back to the core beliefs, how we interpret life based on what we have come to believe. I renounce the lie that life is up to me, that I will need to fight every battle because no one else will do it for me, and just saying this feels like that’s not a lie. That’s life. OK, so I renounce it, even if it doesn’t feel fully there and Jesus, I bring before you this like what is the truth? Are you for me? Can I count on your intervention? Can you show me that life is different than the way that I have come to believe it is? If this is indeed a lie from the enemy, what is the truth? That I will never leave you nor forsake you, right. That I am your shepherd and you lack nothing. And OK, that’s nice in scripture, but how does this apply to my life? Father, I invite you as my provider. Jesus, I invite you as my advocate. As the one who stands on my behalf, would you do justice on my behalf? Yeah, and there to stay with that prayer and allow Jesus to be your advocate and then with curiosity as a little boy to begin to see how he comes, he comes through and, oh, wow, I didn’t need to go to that hotel. Had I been to that hotel, this would have happened and or the treasure of that. Right. And that is a journey. And so that is the beginning of that journey of transformation and restoration to uncover those places. We have come to believe certain things about God and ourselves and life and then to then to bring those before God himself and to have an encounter with him where the truth is revealed to us and we get to be initiated into living life in a way. In the way that results out of that being truth,
Speaker 4 [00:05:29] yeah, makes sense. Yeah, it does. And I I’m thinking about a clip from a movie that I know has impacted you and me as well of movie Le Miserables. Oh, yes. And the passports. Yes. And. A declaration written down. This is what’s true about yes, and you walked the 40 of us men through writing down these lies and then publicly we renounce that. That is a lie from Satan’s lie from hell. That and this is what’s true. And verbally, like these are the truths, I do think, for myself. For each dad listening, there are at times where one moment or one cup of coffee and a blank piece of paper away from like actually articulating, no, this is a lie. I believe it’s not. Our Heavenly Father wants to show us reveal to us the lies. Yes. And replace it with there’s so many I’m so grateful for so many resources that are just like this is all true. Like I have fears that I pray that I’ve written prayers that I didn’t create. Scripture. Yes. Truth, truth, truth. Truth. Yes. Could you explain that scene from the movie? Yes. Why that exercise is so important yet?
Pablo Ceron [00:06:49] It’s a beautiful movie and highly recommended the original version of Le Mis, where Jean Valjean, the main character, is a convict. He’s been 19 years in hard labor in prison because as a boy, I think he was eight or nine. He stole bread to feed his family. He was an orphan. He was living with his sister and his sister’s children. They were all starving. It is in France in the eighteen hundreds, I believe. And then to feed his sister and their children, he stole a piece of bread. He was captured, sentenced to prison. And then he tried to escape. And long story short, he’s been nineteen years in prison, hard labor under the iron fist of these guards who are beating him day and night because he’s a thief, because he’s a dangerous man, because there’s a threat to society. And finally, his release and he needs to go to visit his parole officer in another town. And and he’s he has no place to live. So he ends up knocking at the door and this bishop comes to the door and invites him in to have a meal and to stay in his house. And he’s utterly surprise that someone would be willing to allow him in his house because he’s a dangerous man, he’s a convict. And so he’s is. The image of this men with a with a hood hiding his face, who tells the bishop? What are you doing? Look at my yellow passport, right, right. The yellow passport is is is his ID is his sentence, the sentence on who he is as a man. And he says, I don’t know how to read, but it says that I am dangerous. Right. I’m a criminal. And the bishop, which is in the in the in the movie, the picture of Father Love of God, says, I know who you are. Come in. And then they have this beautiful interaction at the dinner table and the bishop invite him to stay overnight. And this is really important, Jean Valjean has come to believe that he’s a thief. And because that is his belief about his identity, therefore he acts according to who he has come to believe. So if I am a thief, what do I do? I steal. So in the middle of the night, he wakes up and he steals the bishop’s silver silverware to go sell it. He beats the bishop in the head and then he escapes. And then he’s captured by some cops and brought back to the bishop the next day, and he’s petrified because the bishop is going to now testify against him, he’s going to be sent back to prison. But instead, the bishop sends the guards away, removes the hood from Jean Valjean head, and he tells him, Jean Valjean, my brother, it’s a is the is the is the great is the gospel. I have ransomed you. He gives him not only does he encourages him to keep the treasure that he stole from him, but he gives him more and more of the candles, the candles, just the right. And he doesn’t understand what’s happening. I have abused your trust, I hit you, I stole from you and I they bring me back and you are giving me more and you are setting me free. What is this? That is the gospel. That is the love of our Father for us and says with this I have ransomed you from here. From death. From evil. And I send you back to God, you are no longer – the message that the bishop is sending to him is you are not a thief. There is more to your true identity. What has been written in your yellow passport is not the truest thing about you. I see who you are. Go and act accordingly. And so from that from that those clips and walking through these in our weekend, we invite the group of guys to say, what have you come to believe about yourself? What is written in your yellow passport? Either because it’s a phrase that has been spoken over you or you’re the black sheep of the family. You’ll never amount to anything. You’re a piece of crap. You’re just an addict. You’ll see you’ll never be able to succeed. And we have heard those words either from our own family, parents, father, sometimes, you know, or we have come to believe those things as the interpretation of the life that we have lived. I’m just a loser or I will never be able to trust anyone. And there are certain things, all these things that we have come to believe about ourselves should be put to the test. Jesus, what have I come to believe about myself? What is what is written in my yellow passport? Another way to approach that same question is if what would I be afraid would be said about me in a conversation between, let’s say, my wife and her closest friend. What would be said about me, what would I be afraid that others might, the people who really know me, how would they describe me? What words would they use to describe me? And what words am I afraid that people that I am? What words would I use to describe myself, would I use words like strong and passionate and wild and free, or would I use words like passive and checked out and. Um. Violent. Addict. And so in our weekend, we sit down and we have that time with God, Jesus, would you reveal this to me? What words would I use to describe myself? What are the words, what’s written in my yellow passport? And then we gather around the fire, as you said, and this is a holy moment because we share with each other. This is what I have come to believe about myself. And it’s so vulnerable to courageous moment because shame is ruling there, do I dare to say, in front of others? The thing that I’m afraid people will think about me, right? It’s awful, but with that crucifixion, then comes the resurrection. If I am willing to bring this up and even share it with a group of guys that I really trust in the context of my brotherhood in my backyard around the fire. Then we can take that yellow passport and throw it in the fire and renounce those lies and dare to ask God if this is not the truest thing about me, then, father, would you reveal to me who am I? Who did you think of me when you created me before the foundation of the world? What is my true name? What is my true identity? What do you say about me? And that’s the beginning of a journey. That’s the beginning of the restoration of the true man. Right.
Speaker 4 [00:13:40] I am thinking about the prodigal son who had decided in his heart, if I could just be a servant, I’ll take on that identity of a servant, and I’ll just go beg that I could be a servant and hired hand. And the father is like, no way. That’s not your – I think that story alongside of the words God spoke over Jesus, you are my son. I love you. Yes. I take great pleasure. I’m proud that I’m your dad. Yes. And then we’re invited into those things like that is the truest. But many, many times I can swing back into operation like a servant to try to get more of the Father’s love, hoping to get some scraps from his table like this servant versus sonship. Yep. And you you’ve said this this question, this topic is important enough that you could give your life to this and I am with you. I would give my life to this. Helping helping in my case is focused on dads, but just helping men like realize I am a righteous son of God. Yes. I have a father. Yes. Would you would you explain just more around why you’re like, that’s it, I’m I could give the rest of my life for this mission
Pablo Ceron [00:15:01] Wild Sons is the name of our ministry and you asked me about “wild” and now you’re asking me about “sons.” I get emotional even to think about it. I lived the most part of my life with this conviction, this core belief deep in my heart that life was really up to me. Unfortunately, I didn’t have a dad who would father me and love me and validate me in the way that my heart needed. And this is not from a place of condemnation of judgment. He couldn’t because of his own wounds. But as a result of that, I grew up believing at the core of my heart that if anything good in my life was going to happen, I needed to orchestrate it. I needed to make it happen. There was no Plan B, it’s up to me. Life is up to me. And in our years of restoration and then doing this journey with friends and then doing it in ministry, we have come to realize that at some level every man wrestles with the same pain, even the ones who had a fantastic, phenomenal dad it has nothing to do with that. But at some point we have all come to to believe that life is up to me. It is a fatherless view of the world and it is the way that our Western society works. A self-made man is something to be proud of, is something that we admire. Fathered by YouTube. If I want to learn to do anything, what do I do? I go to YouTube and search and do it. But that is an awful view of the world because there is a father and there is a son. And so even at the core of the universe is the relationship between God, the father and Jesus the son. And Jesus glorifies the father and the father glorifies the son. And Jesus says, I don’t want to do anything other than what my father does. And I am my business is my father’s business. It is a life of utter dependance on his father when everything in our society and our culture tells us that we should be financially independent, emotionally independent, I don’t need to need anyone. The true gospel is the gospel of dependance. Jesus is modeling for us how to live life as he did as a son of a father and recovering the relationship between us as sons to our father. It is the greatest treasure that there is. The revelation that the concept of God as a father is not just a theological concept for someone to yes, of course I prayed to my father, God, the father, the father, it sounds foreign, it sounds is papa. But George MacDonald says that the hardest and the gladdest thing is to cry Abba, Daddy to God from a full heart.
Jeff Zaugg [00:17:48] But is the is a gladdest thing, but is is the hardest thing because we have come to believe that he isn’t. Even even theologically we believe that he’s our Father, at the core the moment that the bill arrives in the mail, I feel this not on my chest because I don’t know how in the world am I going to… And I lived in a tent for a while. I didn’t have money to pay rent. So I have been in the place of anguish and I have been in the in the place of like literally being on the floor, not knowing how I am going to solve this issue. And is is that all there is to it? Or could it be true that he is a Father and if he is a Father, could it be true that he wants to be engaged in my daily life? That he wants to love me daily, show up in my life on Tuesday at nine o’clock in the board meeting or at five o’clock when I’m going to tell stories to my boys? When the bill shows up on where the health crisis is, is exploding? Could it be true that there was a Father who wants to father me? Right. The scripture describes how before the foundation of the wall, he said us as the object of his love to be said holy and blameless in his sight, in lovehe predestined us to be his sons. Because of, as a result of his pleasure and delight, so, yes, my father didn’t father me in the way that I needed, but God in the first place chose for him to be my father and for me to be his son even before my father existed, my dad, my earthly that existed. God wanted for him to be my dad and to to use or to partner with my dad as a portion of the expression of fatherhood, but only a portion. So even if my dad was a perfect earthly father, it would not have been enough for me to receive the full portion of what fatherhood means. Jesus himself was made an orphan. He lost his earthly father. He, too, went from having the image of an elderly father to having to detach himself, the plate of sonship from his early dad and place it fully on his Heavenly Father, who now chooses to father through different men and mentors and friends directly through the Spirit, speaking to us and providing the love and the validation and the initiation and the counsel that he needs. So little things. We’re sitting here in my office and you will see we have four shelves right here to my right and I build those with my father God. sounds a little crazy, but it started with building these first shelves, the first screw that I that I put in. Burst the pipe of the shower that is on the other side of the wall. So this whole office was flooding and I am feeling that, holy cow, this is going to cost me a fortune. Close the water… What am I going to do? And the anguish. And at that moment, I have two choices. Either I go back to that orphan mentality -I have to figure this out on my own and I don’t know how. Or Father, I am your son. You are my father, would you father me. So close the water, and Father, what do we do? And I didn’t really know what I need to do. I began to explore, you know, open the drywall and and I saw the hole and oh, dang this is going to be bigger than I thought. And so I’m going to call a plumber. And I called the plumber and then he shows up and a huge in his van there is this is the name of his company, done by Dad. And this is a 60 year old man who’s coming in and I saw our friend Morgan says “when the student is ready, the teacher appears, when the Son is ready, the father appears.” OK, so Father, your crack me up. Don’t buy that, OK? And so I ask him, would you teach me? Of course. Come here, son. Let me show you. And so we got on our knees right here and I dried all the things around me. And with him I learned to fix the pipes and I paid him full price. And then he left and he gave me a card that says, Done by Dad, that I have close to my nightstand to remind myself that my father is engaged in my life. I learned a little bit of plumbing. I was able to rebuild this. It wasn’t that expensive. And more than fixing, paying to fix the house. I paid a little I invested a little of my time and my resources on being fathered, and something in my soul was restored. I was fathered by my Father in heaven and he used the Done by Dad guy. And I could give you a thousand other examples in daily life.
Jeff Zaugg [00:22:52] Is there so many directions I’d love to go. I think, though, just we’ll take it one more step tonight for this this round. And it’s just it’s emphasizing again that we have a choice to look for tactics on how to raise sons and daughters. Yes. Or before any of the tactics, we could look inward at our own story. Yes. And we could look upward at this ridiculous offer that we have of a Heavenly Father who’s offering to father us. Yes. And the benefit of, we can get the tactics wrong. We can do the parenting stuff, that stuff. This dad Hack. And it’s not to say like there are all kinds of helpful, my word, ask your friends for advice around parenting. Absolutely. But today, I just would love you to go one step deeper around the order and the reason to not bypass this step. Yes. Of Sonship. Yes. In the attempt to raise sons and daughters. Love it. But you go just one more step into that.
Pablo Ceron [00:23:56] Yeah. That what comes to mind immediately, Jeff, is this. If it is true that I am God’s son and if I am going to say yes to his invitation to become his son. Again, George MacDonald says, because we are the sons of God, we must become the sons of God. I may understand it conceptually, but again to the reactions I may start to react, reacting and acting as a slave, as an orphan, instead of as a son. Over time, I begin to put this to the test and to and by the way, what I would say is to start by this simple prayer. “Father, I receive you fresh as a father, and I choose to become your son, would you father me?” And say that prayer every morning? Good morning, Father. I am your son, would you father me today, you are my father, I am your son. Would you father me today? And if that is true. And if I can go on this journey and become my father’s son again. Then it must be true that my two boys are his his sons, too, and he is more interested in fathering my two boys than I am, and he knows them and has known them before the foundation of the world. So he knows their hearts. He knows what they need. He’s orchestrating a journey of initiation so that they can become the men he created them to be. I play a crucial role and my role is to ask my dad, father, father, would you allow me to see my son in the way that you see him? Would you allow me to see what is it at this age in this season that you’re doing in his heart, in his life? And what is my role in partnering with you for that? As a quick example, Mateo just turned 10 in October last year, and so he started what we are describing now as a decade of initiation. I want to partner with our father, God, initiating my boy from the age of 10 to the 20 21. So by the time that he’s twenty one, hopefully he knows who God is. He knows who he is. He knows what the story that we’re a part of and he knows what he’s from diaries and he can walk with guiding in it. And so he’s ten. And I wanted to start this journey of initiation in a special way. So Father, what do I do right back to the tactics which are important. Should I do a ceremonial initiation with my friends? Maybe. Should I take them on a backpacking trip? Should I take him hunting? And I began to bring these these things to God. And and he said those are great things, but not yet. And through a friend. He told me these words delight in what he delights in. Delight in what he delights in. Which is something I never got from my dad. For him to come down to his knees. Eye to eye with me and to ask me, what do you want, son? What do you want to do? OK, I hear you delight in what he delights in. So why does he delight in? Right now, he delights in Legos. He delights in Jurassic World and dinosaurs, he delights in Harry Potter. OK, backpacking may not work, and the journey of initiate the ceremonial initiation with my friends may not be the best thing, huh? OK, buddy, we’re going to Orlando. And last spring, in response to what God showed me he was doing in my son, I saw an opportunity to participate in what my Father was doing, and the season for him was the joy of boyhood. Instead of forcing him or pushing him to become a man, he’s 10, is the delight of what you’re your own time. Boyhood is phenomenal. Playfulness, joy, pleasure in what you delight in. So I took my son and it was an expensive trip and a sacrifice. And I was like, dang it, are we going through this? Flew out to Florida, stayed in a hotel. Two of us snuggled together, watch cartoons, went to Disney. And in the middle of the, it was absolutely ridiculously fun. I was still stressed by how much money I was spending in this and how it was not what I would have chosen, I don’t want the crowds. And then the Father spoke to me. You also are my son. Do you want to allow your 10 year old heart to have fun in Disney? You didn’t have that with your dad. Do you want me to restore that in you? Tears running down my face, of course. And I became a 10 year old. So it was two 10 year olds, two sons of our Father, enjoying what He was inviting us into. It’s not up to me. The raising of my boys is not up to me because life is not up to me. So, Matteo. Would you pray with me, Father? We are your sons, would you father us today? And he did every day in in Orlando we rode every roller coaster. Long lines ate the turkey leg that looks like a brontosaurus, ginormous leg. And we had the time of our lives. I played like a kid and I allowed the kid in me, the son of God in me to play like my son allowed his own young heart to play with me and with the Father. All of that to say. The invitation is to ask God for a revelation of what he’s doing in our children’s life. And for us to participate in it, knowing that the outcome is up to it’s up to God, we have no control over it.
Jeff Zaugg [00:30:01] It takes so much of the pressure down. Yes, exactly, so thankful. Thank you for this time.
Pablo Ceron [00:30:09] It’s my honor.
Jeff Zaugg [00:30:11] I know this will not be our last conversation. And thankfully, I get to have these treasured conversations and then share with many, many dads who are listening, I’d love to invite you Popolo to pray for me. Yes, pray for and pray pray for these dads listening to that, that we could experience the pleasure of God and. Yes. And the pleasure of like seen through the eyes of our kids. I mean, that’s secondary. We’re sons alongside of each other. Would you just pray for some breakthroughs in that area? Yes. God would father us.
Pablo Ceron [00:30:46] Absolutely. Thank you, Jeff. Father. We come to you as your sons and daughters, if there are any women listening. We come with our young hearts before you. If we are listening to this podcast, we have a passion for our children, a desire to raise them well. A desire to be good fathers, good parents. And right now, as with everything, we release that pressure. To you, the pressure of having to do it well, the pressure of having to figure it out. We release the pressure to you. We recognize that you are involved in our lives and in the lives of our children. That you are more interested in their well-being than we are. So we take away the the weight. And we ask you, Father, would you take this heavy load? We ask you, Father, would you father us? We ask you, would you reveal to each of us as parents, as fathers, would you reveal to us the true identity of each of our children? Would you give us eyes to see them in the way that you see them? We also ask that you would reveal to us the lies that we have come to believe about us, about them, about parenting, then we need to break agreements with. That it is never going to change, that I’ll never be good enough. We break those agreements. That I have to figure it out, that is up to me, we break those agreements in the name of Jesus Christ. And instead, we invite you, Lord, to come. We open our hearts for you to come as a father. To us and as a father, to our children. We ask for each of us a revelation of this season that our children, each of our children are going through, what is it that you are doing in their lives? What is your intention? How are you wanting to reveal yourself to them? What do their hearts need? What does my son’s heart need in this season? What does my daughter’s heart need in this season that you are providing? And what is my role? And Jesus, we recognize that outcomes are not under my control, under our control, so we release all outcomes to you. We choose to not measure our success as parents in the day we release that pressure to you. We trust you with our children. We ask your blessing over each of them. We ask Lord that you would give us the love for them that you have. Feel our hearts to overflow. We ask Lord Jesus that you would fill our hearts with love and with life and that we may parent from the overflow of what you are doing in our hearts. We pray that you would shepherd and guide our souls, that you would lead us to care for our souls in a way that we can offer that we have a tank full to offer to our children what they need, the love, the validation, the attention that they need. Lord Jesus, is there anything else that you want to speak to us tonight? What I hear Jesus say is how proud he is. Of a father who is willing to spend his time listening to a podcast because he wants to be a better dad. So we hear that your praise Lord Jesus, your validation, your well done. And we give you thanks, thank you for that, we receive it. And we ask for more. We want the fullness of what’s available for each one of our children on this side of heaven. We want to be the conduit of that bring feel our homes with the kingdom. Thank you for making us parents, for giving us the privilege. Of influencing our children to become who you created them to be. In Jesus name, Amen.
Jeff Zaugg [00:36:11] Guys, I am so glad that you joined us this week for episode one hundred and eighty nine with my friend Pablo Ceron and all the conversation notes the the links out to his ministry and just the incredible work he’s doing specifically on the front range of Colorado. But there even prayed about expansion to other areas of the country. That’s going to be at DadAWESOME.org/189. So you can pick up all those notes there. I want to remind you guys we did, we celebrated last week Fathers for the Fathers in Minneapolis, but we have four other cities. So just in in two and a half weeks here, we’re two weeks from Saturday. We are out in in the front range of Colorado and Loveland, Fort Collins, Boulder area doing a 100 mile bike ride at altitude. So keep praying for our team as we keep raising money for the fatherless. And if you happen to be in the Colorado area, reach out to us. We’d love to have you volunteer with our team. We’ve got about twenty eight guys riding. So so, guys, thank you for listening today. Thank you for leaning in and saying, man, I’m not done growing. I’m going to be a dad who adds life to the dad life. I’m going to become DadAWESOME for my kids. So that’s our prayer. Thanks for being a part of this brotherhood. We’ll see you guys next week.