324 | Calling Out Your Child Through Ceremonies, Rites of Passage, and Spoken Blessings (Michael Warren: Part 2)
Episode Description
One day, your child will transition into a young adult. Fathers play an essential role in recognizing those moments through ceremony and celebration. In the second half of this conversation, Michael Warren explores how dads can support their children by welcoming them into a larger community and fostering a sense of belonging.
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Michael Warren is a dad of four who is passionate about equipping fathers to lead their sons into REAL masculinity. He lives in Anchorage, Alaska, where he facilitates the Alaska Knights program at ChangePoint.
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· Don't talk about it; be about it.
· Present your son to a community of men and vocalize why he belongs there.
· Create milestone moments for all of your children.
· Make the courageous call to the person you think would be willing to meet with you to talk about being a dad.
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· DadAwesome Activation Events
· Host an Event in Your Area: Contact Us
· Alaska Knights: Raising a Modern Day Knight
· Raising a Modern-Day Knight: A Father's Role in Guiding His Son to Authentic Manhood by Robert Lewis
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Podcast Intro: [00:00:01] Being a great father takes a massive amount of courage. Instead of being an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a decent leader. The oldest dad in the world gave you this assignment, which means you must be ready for it. As a dad, I get on my knees and I fight for my kids. Let us be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. I want encounters with God where He teaches me what to do with my kids. I know I'm going to be an awesome dad because I'm gonna give it my all.
Michael Warren: [00:00:39] We always want a dad to present their sons to the community around them, basically saying, this is my son. Let me tell you about him and let me tell you why he belongs here, as a man, why and why he belongs in this community. There's ceremony around presenting your son and letting them, like speaking out loud to a community of men, like, this is my son.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:01:02] Welcome back to DadAwesome. My name is Jeff Zaugg and today, episode 324, I have Michael Warren from Alaska joining me. And this is the second part of our conversation. So if you missed last week, episode 323, jump back and listen to that 25, 28 minute conversation first, before this week's episode of just, the set up matters, in this case. So, guys, I'm so thankful you're listening this week. I want a quick shout out to our activation event. So, at DadAwesome our heartbeat is we activate dads to lead with wonder. And one of the areas that we've been serving for, this is our sixth year now, we've had over 24 events, over 900 men connected is our Fathers for the Fatherless events. So we have events in Minnesota, we have events in New York, we have an event in Texas. We have, several other events still being planned. And these are Spartan Obstacle Course Races. We, we're doing a Tough Mudder event in Minnesota, i's also an obstacle course race. That's a ten mile. We're doing triathlons. We have a half Ironman, 70.3 half Ironman team this year. And then we have 3 or 4 additional 100 mile bike rides. So yeah, we've been, we've grown beyond, to start with it was all just 100 mile bike rides. But we, we team up, we activate men, you don't have to be a dad to be a part of one of these teams. We, we see God's heart for all men to be Fathers for the Fatherless. We activate teams of men to do something hard that requires training, that requires perseverance and grit. So we do a hard thing together, and, and we raise money for local and global partners who directly serve the fatherless. So that's our heartbeats. We're so thankful to be jumping into year six of this mission. The shownotes will have a linked all of our schedule for this year. But the registration is open, I want to invite our DadAwesome community to join one of these events or host an event where you're at. So just reach out to us if you want to host an event, locally. We are, we love when when local leaders say I actually have an event in mind, I have a group of guys and we want to actually rally men on behalf of the fatherless. So you could do that as well. But it's all going to be listed in the show notes, your action step to joining the team or communicating with us about starting an event in your area. So that's your invitation this week. Let's jump in. This is the second half of my conversation with Michael Warren. You mentioned your daughter has, on the wall of her room, like just that she can always look to that wall and know, you know, my dad cared. There's, there's moments shared. Do you call them milestones? I can't remember what word you used earlier.
Michael Warren: [00:03:47] Yeah. Just milestones is, you know, that's just part of, part of my our language here. When we talk about these intentional moments, you know, we want to, we want to create milestone moments, you know, ones that are absolutely memorable. And but yeah, she's got she's got a wall full of pictures. And to be honest, that's been, been the manifestation of this definition and W's in my own life as a dad. You know, my boys come to me and they say things like, hey, dad, do you want to go out to eat and get some sushi? And then when we get home, we could play some board games or we could go for a run. And I'm like, yeah, that's a great idea.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:26] It's clear. Yes.
Michael Warren: [00:04:29] So my boys are, you know, they're pursuing me. When it comes to my daughter, it's just, it's been a little extra work. I've had to learn a lot about her heart, a lot about how God has made her, and a lot about kind of what it's like for her when I come in the room. And so it's just, it's been a little slower for me, and I've had to, like, run some experiments and try things out. But what's caused me to not give up and all that's complex and quite frankly, confusing to me sometimes, about pursuing the heart of my my kind of preteen, early teen daughter has been this no, I'm going to reject passivity and expect the greater reward by stepping in and creating some milestones for her, too. And you know, often it means I'm getting dressed up and I'm taking, I'm taking her out on the town.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:05:18] So that, that is I love hearing how you're thinking about like creating versus it's one thing to put on the calendar that I'm going to walk, I'm going to walk with my daughter down to get to share an ice cream cone, walk back. Like that, that could be a photo that's memorable, but it's it's she feels loved. She hears my words. We have time to dialog and ask questions. My ratio is like five silly questions to every one kind of halfway serious one, right?
Michael Warren: [00:05:42] Ah that's good. I like that.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:05:43] Well, but you're talking about more planning required. You're talking about like actually creating something, a special moment that she's going to remember. And I think I can grow in that area like actually crafting and creating. What advice would you have for me on actually going beyond just the casual, plan it on the fly daddy daughter moments?
Michael Warren: [00:06:02] Well, you could teach me about doing, being a little bit more spontaneous, okay? Because I think a lot of times, you know, the quality moments come out of, of many moments. So if you have many moments together, you're going to get a quality one in there. You can't just, you can't just plan intentional. You can't plan special. It's like today is gonna be special, boom. But, but for me, you know, months can go by, and I never want to be a dad that's still talking about it. You know what I mean? I've often thought of this example, you know, two dads are standing in the driveway. And one dad says to the other, dad, hey, I think I'm gonna make a work bench with my son. The other dad goes, yeah, that's awesome. And they both leave. Six months later, those dads come back together and only one of those dads actually built a workbench with his son, right. So how does that happen? Well, it's a, it's like a 24 step process if you think about it. So I don't work with wood. I wish I did. I don't. So I need to to go and borrow some tools. And then I need to go and find a plan on the internet. And then I need to take my first trip to Lowe's or Home Depot. First trip.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:07:23] First. Yeah, yeah.
Michael Warren: [00:07:24] Right. I need to check with my wife to see what's in the budget. I need to clean the garage so we actually have a place to work. And okay, so you're getting it. You get it, like it's a whole list of things. And each one of those things and moving toward the finished workbench is a hour here, three hours there, for us. So long story long, unless this is on the calendar, unless I say I'm going to, I'm going to clean the garage Tuesday. And it's for the workbench project for Saturday morning at 9:00. I'm going to spend an hour over at Lowe's, Home Depot, getting the, doing the wood pull and finding the bolts and all the stuff. You know, Thursday at work, at lunch, instead of, I'm going to eat my lunch at my computer and I'm going to shop, I'm going to look online for plans like, the plans to actually make, you know, the measurements, the blueprint, right. So, so long story long, the advice I would give to any dad who has an idea or who wants to take a step in, is to really look like when, when are you going to do this? And, and I think it honors our wives to, to read them in and to be like look on Thursday, you know, do I have a, do I have a kitchen pass? Can I go, you know, can I take her, can I take, you know, and this is why I'm doing it and kind of get your wife's like, like encouragement and endorsement in that. And so, so it's, for me it's about planning and, and, you know, like, like, you know, my old basketball coach used to say, don't talk about it, be about it, right.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:08:49] That's, that phrase, I mean, intent, good intent as dads does not actually make, our kids don't benefit from a good intent. They actually have to put the intention into action and do the 24 steps, right. Is that, I mean, yeah, what did the basketball coach say again? Don't talk about it, be about it. Is that right?
Michael Warren: [00:09:08] Don't talk about it, be about it, right. Like, you can talk all day about what's going on out there, but you can, you get out there and do it.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:09:14] And I know this about me. Unless it's like a couple other of my friends or my wife, and unless I have some form of there's others involved and they know that I've made that commitment. I, I rarely will actually take all the steps to completion. Like I actually have to, like, bring that like intent and say, okay, this is my plan. And a few people are in the loop and people are going to be asking me about it because I just know that I have, I ideate all the time. New initiatives to deploy when it comes to being a dad. So, I, I'd love to go to like, the dad listening that wants to grab a couple other dads and create an experience and they know that, well, is it, is it 13 we should start? Are there a couple key ceremonies or rites of passage? Maybe even explain what the differences. Are there's some just high level, just to get something going that you say, make sure this is included.
Michael Warren: [00:10:07] I would say think about what you want to teach, what do you want to transfer, right. So that's why I love this, this, Raising A Modern Day Knight book is because they give you the, you don't have to make up the content either. Like, this is really good content, right. This definition of manhood, the R-E-A-L and the four contexts. And then, what we have found works really well is, have a short teaching. Like, let somebody open up the Word of God and speak it out. And, I think Scripture matters. I think story matters. And so whoever is going to be the one to, to do the teaching, you know, break open the Word, tell some stories, get make sure the big idea is clear. But keep it, keep it short. You know, five, ten minutes. And then after that teaching, we like to do an activity. So if we're going to talk about work. So, one of the W's is a work to do. We're going to talk about work. What does the Bible say about work? Let me tell you from my experience how I've been able to, you know, step into man and work and then do a work project. Like get your hands dirty, like do something right. And then, so it's, it's it's teaching, it's hands on. And then I think the third thing would be that the father or the mentor of that boy looks that boy in the eye and puts the teaching in the context of their relationship, and of their family and of their family story. And so if it ends with dad, it just feels good to me. So it's not about the master teacher, the person who did the teaching. It's not about the guy who ran the work project, who maybe is good at kind of doing things with his hands. So those are, those guys are essential. But if it ends with dad, it's like the bump, the sat and the spike. The bump is the teaching, the set is the work, like the hands on, and then the spike is dad. And it's a case for dads getting together and getting their heads in their hearts around this before they go, and, you know, do, like an intentional weekend or a little retreat or, you know, have a little like, get together is you want to make sure the dads are like, really there and cultivating a relationship with their sons. That way, when everybody kind of shows up to do something intentional, it's not like, look, my dad's never talked to me about anything, and I've never done an activity with him. Now all of a sudden, we're gonna do all of it, right. So, so it's preparing your heart, but also preparing your relationship. And then that bump, set, spike, teaching activity. And then, then the dad that goes with that boy, putting it in the context of what only they know because they live together, they're in the same house. Same story, same situation.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:12:53] That's super clear. And that will, yeah, move things in the direction of, man, the dad even being the spike, like that moment of oh this is now really resonating and connecting because it's a one on one at that point. Now what about ceremonies and rites of passage? Can you explain what those are?
Michael Warren: [00:13:10] Yeah, this is really good. This is kind of a natural next thing to talk about. So, I think ceremonies can be kind of micro and macro. So at the end of every, on this particular kind of back country thing that we do up here, at the end of every teaching moment, we do a a, we call it the letter ceremony. So R, R-E-A-L, R stands for reject passivity. And then we, so we have that, we have actually have a letter. It's a brass letter. And we also have a wooden letter P. So P stands for passivity. Okay, so let's go through it all again. So there's teaching, there's an activity, Dad's put it in context. And then they do a kind of a mini ceremony where they bury the wooden letter P. And the dad awards and presents the brass letter R. So, so think about this, why would we bury a wooden letter? Well, we're going to bury a wooden letter because what's going to happen to that letter over time? It's going to disintegrate. And if you come back a couple of years from now, it's going to disappear. You won't be able to find it. And it kind of amplifies this look, you're becoming less of a little boy, more of a man. And we want to see passivity kind of disintegrating and kind of going away. And so that's like one of these tactile kind of memorable moments. And I would take a picture. I would have them like hold up the letters. Dad's got his arm around his son. Like this is a moment right. So that's a mini ceremony. We also encourage dads, whether they're boys are at the high school level, or the middle school level, or at the kind of they're getting married tomorrow level, at those ceremonies, we always want a dad to kind of present their sons to the community around them. Basically saying, this is my son. Let me tell you about him and let me tell you why he belongs. Why he belongs here as a man. And why he belongs in this community. And so it's in it, so there's there's ceremony around, kind of presenting your son and letting that, like, speaking out loud to a community and then like, this is my son. And then, a blessing. Just a father's blessing. And, you know, we don't know what happens when we speak things out loud, but I know something does, right. Like the Lord of the seen in the unseen, like I I'm, I don't know what happens in the unseen, but I think things do happen. When we, when we speak blessings and when we affirm, we affirm someone's character and how God made them. And we do it out loud. I think that's biblical. I think we see it throughout the Bible. And I think when we look to the Bible of like when, when, when, when a man did that, it kind of, it kind of it it like cast vision for a future and it, it just calls out what is before the Lord and before people. So I think it's significant. So anyway, so to go back and summarize, micro ceremony, I think it's important to kind of capture the moment and then these bigger kind of corporate, kind of everybody's together where we speak out. And one of the attributes of our community that I love to see this when when it's contagious, is that it's not only a dad or a mentor that speaking out loud about their guy, their son. The community speaks out loud as well. And so we try to add this element in any time, we're kind of like calling people out to say, is there anybody else here that will speak on this young man's behalf? And it's like popcorn, man. People stand up. They're like, hey, I've known this guy. I was his soccer coach. And here's a characteristic I see in him and it just affirming him publicly. And then there's people like, yeah, I hung out with him this morning and we had a discussion, this is what he said. And so we're trying to make part of our culture that we speak out loud about each other. And, man, that's kind of that's countercultural, isn't it?
Jeff Zaugg: [00:17:20] Yeah it is.
Michael Warren: [00:17:21] Yeah.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:17:23] Well, Michael, there are like my heart feels an ache because I can't point back to a specific moment where that's where I, that's when I became a man. Like having that defined and guided in that as a young man, becoming a man, that's something I didn't have from from my dad and from that circle of older men. And secondly, that that moment of my dad and other men in the community, in front of other young men and other dads, speaking out blessing and out affirmation and this is what we see in him, this is why he belongs. Like, I can't point back to that either. So the ache is, now, the ache has been in so many ways, God has sent, rushed in and other mentors, leaders, friends, healing and so many like, I'm so grateful. But that's still, it's an ache that I want every dad listening to, like, think about, like, we can step into this. It's going to be, it's going to take work. It's going to take more than just intention. It's going to take actually all 24 of those steps to create and pull together. You got to go get that book to start, Robert Lewis, Raising A Modern Day Knight and then and then, but just what you've, it's so practical what you said and what you've shared and what has traction. I know why it has traction in Alaska, the Alaska Knights program. Like, I know why it has traction for what you've shared right now. And I want like I pray that it will be seen. These will be popping up all around the world, that this will become more normal. I want to just give you a moment, Michael, is there anything else as an exclamation point that you wanted to share with the DadAwesome community?
Michael Warren: [00:19:00] For anybody listening who's like, oh my goodness, I get this, but I don't, I don't know where to start. I think sometimes it's just, if you have one other guy that you know, who you think would kind of get this, who would want to be intentional about their parenting, would want to create some memories. I have had times in my life where I've called up a guy that I thought maybe, maybe I'm supposed to kind of walk with this person for a while and have some and have some internal conversations, like, like not just drink coffee, not just have a meal, but like, like actually talk about some of the things that are really going on behind closed doors. I would encourage you to make a call and just say that, say, hey, would you be willing to meet with me so that we could talk about being, being a dad and maybe take a step in together. I think, you know, and I always get afraid. Like I pick up the call, well it's going to sound weird. You know, is this something that other people are thinking about? And the times where I've taken courageous steps like that, I've always found the answers like, yeah, let's do this. And and you could read a book together, you could plan a kind of father-son campout weekend together. There's all kinds of things that you could do. You could, you could hold each other accountable to build a workbench together, right. But, you know, if there's something that you want, and the burden, like what responsibility comes with the burden? What responsibility comes with a heightened sense of urgency? And that's not to to like shame, guilt, pressure. Not, it's not about that. But but really, if this is on your heart, I would say just move with it. Find another person and just take the next step. Our God is a God of next steps, practical next steps. Because what kind of a God would He be if He showed us the entire landscape and made us feel overwhelmed and discouraged? Not helpful.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:21:07] It's not his character.
Michael Warren: [00:21:08] No. Take, find a friend, take a practical next step and see what God does. And, take some pictures as you go. And, don't be afraid to be creative and, and go for it.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:21:22] You, you already spoke some, just some affirmation and, like, you really, built up your oldest son, your 18 year old, with just a few things you already shared about him. Your second oldest, son. How old is he?
Michael Warren: [00:21:35] He's 15.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:21:36] 15. What's his first name?
Michael Warren: [00:21:38] He's the one that, that... His name is Wyatt. And trying new things is is, I think, the manifestation of this in his life. Just courageously stepping into places that, you know, he's going to give it a go and expect, you know, reject passivity and expect a greater reward and and just step in.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:21:56] I want to invite, invite you as a model for us before you pray to kind of end this conversation, Michael, could you just share about Wyatt? Share about him, the man he's becoming, the things you see, just like you talked about. And just not super long, but, like, a minute. I'd love to hear. Because this lives on in, it's something that he could listen to, he could listen to six months from now or 16 years from now. Can you just take a moment and talk about your son Wyatt and bless him?
Michael Warren: [00:22:24] Yeah. So what I love about Wyatt is, is his his courage to try new things. And when I think of him, I think of of these light switches that he is allowed to be turned on and the rooms that he's been in. So he has transformed from a boy who would sit with a five, 700 hundred page book, make a tent fort in his bed, and kind of, kind of private and quiet to, hey, I want to, I want to, I want to join the cross-country team. I'd like to be, learn how to be a wrestler. I'd like to learn self-defense. I mean, just and I'm just like, you go, man. You go, you go and try that. And if you get into it and it's not, you know, it's not going to be kind of a legacy thing for you, you be you. Because, because his older brother, he's the kind of guy he he gets his heart around something, he sticks with it forever. And that becomes, you know, it becomes part of him, his identity. And so, I just I love the way that Wyatt's made and and we just we love his courage. And, we love how he has not allowed, you know, being kind of second born in the shadow of his brother. And he's not allowed him being kind of different get in the way of him pursuing the same definition of manhood and, and stepping out. And so when I think of Wyatt, I think of courage, I think of, I think of all things new. I think of of just just just, just willing and and, you know, just willing to get out there, which is, which is commendable. I love it.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:23:58] Amazing. Thank you for taking a moment to share and just model that for us, as we think about how to really call out and use our words. Michael, I really appreciate this conversation. Would you take, just a couple moments, a short prayer, say a short prayer over all of us?
Michael Warren: [00:24:12] Yeah. God, you're the perfect Dad. And, we're just thankful for the ways that that through Jesus, You've just modeled so much for us about what it means to reject passivity and to accept responsibility and to lead courageously and to expect a greater reward. And, I just love that that that's part of Your ways. Is that You You've put a model out there for us and for every dad. Lord, it's it's, it's a big role that You've given to us. It's a it's a big role of impact. And, just pray that You'd help each one of us to know what's next for the kids that we have, or for the spiritual kids that we have in our homes. What does it mean for us, Lord, to to set the pace and to establish culture and to be intentional? Lord, I just pray for anybody who's just overwhelmed. You're not a God of overwhelm. You're not a God who shames us or condemns us. But You are a God who gives us some next steps. And You certainly are a God who's creative and, and shows us uniquely how we can step into all that You have for us. So pray a blessing over everybody who's hearing this. I pray that You'd infuse courage where it's necessary and that if there's if there's dad who just needs to know that he's just stay the course. Stay in it. That they would that they'd be able to do that and give us courage to pray, a passion for Your word and, help us, to help us, show us what it means to not do all of this alone. And I ask these things with great confidence, Lord, because I feel like I'm speaking back to You. Your design for a man and what You have for us because of the testimony of Your people, because it's revealed in Your Word. And so with that confidence and in Jesus strong name, Amen.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:26:03] Thank you so much for joining us for episode 324, the second part of my conversation with Michael Warren. Guys, thank you for leaning in around these topics. Thank you for, just your hearts. If you've listened until this moment right now, it means you desire to create clarity around your family's vision, your mission. What are you raising? If you've got boys, man, the vision for this is what it means to be a man for your sons. If you got little girls, it's like, man, this is my vision to raise daughters who become young women, who are leaders and following Jesus and changing the world. Guys the vision matters. And you guys have pressed in long enough now that I know, like God cares deeply about these topics that these last two episodes have talked about. And He is with you in this process of bringing clarity to a process of formation, of creating key milestones, of pursuing the hearts of your kids. So just know you are being prayer, prayed for. I'm praying for you. You're being prayed for. God is cheering for you. I'm cheering for you. It matters so much that you just stay after it. But also be a dad of action. Take action. Take some time to start to spell out, man, what does this look like for your family? What could some key milestone moments be with your kids? Let's, let's not back down. It matters greatly. Our prayer at DadAwesome is that we'd be activating you, activating dads to lead with wonder. So keep a curiosity, a wonder, expectation that God is with you and He's for you. And have a great week with your kids.
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· 4:31 - "When it comes to my daughter, it's been a little extra work. I've had to learn a lot about her heart, a lot about how God has made her, it's been a little slower for me, and I've had to run some experiments and try things out. What's caused me to not give up and all that's complex and, quite frankly, confusing to me sometimes, about pursuing the heart of preteen, early teen daughter has been this, I'm going to reject passivity and expect the greater reward by stepping in and creating some milestones for her, too."
· 20:26 - "If there's something that you want, what responsibility comes with the burden? What responsibility comes with a heightened sense of urgency? And that's not to shame, guilt, pressure, it's not about that. If this is on your heart, I would say just move with it. Find another person and just take the next step. Our God is a God of next steps, practical next steps. Because what kind of a God would He be if He showed us the entire landscape and made us feel overwhelmed and discouraged? That's not His character. "
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