376 | Raising Boys Who Respect Girls, Removing Shame from the Sex Talk, and Thriving in Marriage (Dave Willis)

Experiencing God's LoveBrotherhood & Mentorship
Written By Jeff Zaugg

Episode Description

There is never a dull moment as a parent, especially in a world dominated by screens and technology. In this episode, Dave Willis shares how he’s tackling tough conversations with his sons about sex, boundaries, and the dangers of pornography. Plus, he explains how the words you speak as a dad can become your child’s inner voice—for better or for worse.

  • Dave Willis and his wife, Ashley, are the authors of multiple books including the bestseller, The Naked Marriage. They’re also Christian speakers, marriage coaches, and the hosts of The Marriage on the Line Podcasts. They have four sons and live near Augusta, Georgia.

    • The best moments come from undistracted one-on-one interactions where you connect with your kids in their world each day. 

    • A child’s mind and heart are like wet cement, and the words you say leave lasting impressions. 

    • It’s important to create a safe, shame-free space to talk about sex and God’s design for the body with your kids. 

    • Be prepared to guide your kids through a complex digital world filled with AI, robots, and other predatory technology.

    • God designed your marriage to flourish. 

  • Episode 376  Wade Edit.mp3


    Speaker 1 [00:00:01] Being a great father takes a massive amount of courage. Instead of being an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a descent leader. The oldest dad in the world gave you this assignment, which means you must be ready for it. As a dad, I get on my knees and I fight for my kids. Let us be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. I want encounters with God, where he teaches me what to do with my kids I know I'm going to be an awesome dad because I'm gonna give it my all. 


    Dave Willis [00:00:39] we cannot overestimate the power of our words. And God designed it that way. He created the whole universe using His words. He could have created it any way He wanted. Then He created us in His image, giving us power in our words, and especially for fathers to their children, the power to being able to bless your child with your words, encouraging them, or the negative impact of being really critical. Either way, the words we're speaking to our kids, they're gonna become the soundtrack, the inner voice in those kids' heads as they grow. I mean, they're gonna hear our voices for the rest of their lives. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:01:14] Hey guys, welcome back to Dad Awesome. Today, episode 376, I have Dave Willis joining me. Dave, along with his wife Ashley, they've invested the last couple decades of their life in resourcing. cheering for helping inspiring Christian marriages. So his book, The Naked Marriage, another book he wrote for parents called Raising Boys Who Respect Girls. They've got another handful of books and their podcast, Marriage on the Line, a phenomenal resource. I'm so grateful for today's conversation with Dave Willis. We're gonna jump into some topics that are not gonna be as helpful for little ears. So if you're listening with your young kids, There's just a couple heavier topics that we discuss today, so just to be aware. But I wanna quick invite you guys, April 11th is the deadline to apply to be a part of the Dad Awesome Accelerator. This is our fourth cohort. We're gonna host this round on Wednesdays from April 23rd through May 28th. It's a six-week sprint, packaging everything we've learned in six years of Dad Awesome into six weeks. Guys, I want you to send me an email and learn more about this opportunity. we've got a four-minute overview video to share with you. We've got the six accelerator promises, there's six kind of expectations, and we want to invite you guys to prayerfully apply. But apply, you've got one more week through April 11th to be a part of the spring cohort. I am so thankful for this resource. I'm thankful for all the dads who have already said yes, and I'm praying that you will explore joining us for this next round. So send an email to at dadawesome.org. simply email awesome at dadawesome.org to learn more about the next round of the Dad Awesome Accelerator. Okay, I've already introduced Dave. Excited for you guys to hear today's conversation. This is episode 376 with Dave Willis. Dave, thanks for joining me for a dad-awesome conversation. Thanks for having me. It's been a long time that I've been listening to your podcast or watching the YouTube channels, learning about marriage, about parenting, and grateful that now we can kind of team up and have a conversation together. So tell me this though, to start in, you've got four boys, I have four girls. You're a chapter ahead of me. My oldest is 11. Isn't your youngest around nine, 10? How old is your youngest? 


    Dave Willis [00:03:45] Yeah, our youngest just turned 10. Our oldest is about to turn 20. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:03:51] It's a different chapter, different chapter. And we are, you know, we often, we're praying for dads. I pray with a bias towards dads of boys. I pray more for dads with boys because I have a vested interest in praying for those. 


    Dave Willis [00:04:04] Lord let there be some good men for these girls to marry 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:04:07] That's it, at least four. God, at at least 4 did that. I'm curious, though, what are you learning in this chapter? Like, where do you find yourself the aha or the discoveries in the dad life? Any recent learnings? 


    Dave Willis [00:04:19] I will say that the learning keeps coming, you know, you don't, you never get to a place where you're like, all right, I got this figured out. And as soon as you think you got to figure out with one kid, the season changes and they're into something different and you have to reshuffle the deck. And then what works with one kids doesn't always work with another because everyone's so unique. But I would say, man... part of what I'm learning is to just try to slow down and be present more. I think in the early years of fatherhood especially, it was just the pace. The pace is still intense. I don't have the energy that I had 20 years ago when the journey began. So I kind of had to slow it down. But I think just being present in these moments in like every single day looking for looking for the undistracted one-on-one conversation with each kid, trying to connect with them in their world each day. It doesn't have to be big or fancy or structured, but being intentional about that, those tend to be my best moments of the day. Whereas I think in the early years, I missed a lot of that because I was just, I was running too hard or I thought family time had to look a certain way. And I don't know, maybe it's life or age or whatever, but I'm more laid back now. And I think that's helping me catch more moments that I missed early on. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:05:41] Your youngest son, at this 10-year-old moment, I'm just wondering, is there any areas you're like, this is for sure different than what our oldest son, when he was 10 years ago, when he was ten? Any calibrations? You're like yep, this is different in how I roll out the dad life. 


    Dave Willis [00:05:59] I feel like I got angry faster when they were younger. And I hate that. I hate for my older, I mean, they're not, I don't think they're scarred or anything. I wasn't beating on them. But I did just, I had a shorter fuse and I hate they saw that. Because when our kids, what they see in us, they think is healthy and they think it's normal, even if it's totally broken. And so with our younger one, I find myself like, I'm way more patient. with him. Now, in some ways, the older boys got a better version of me because I was more energetic. The younger one gets a better versions because I'm more patient. So maybe it's a flip-flop, but that is one thing. He's getting a more patient version of me. Even just in the 10 years between oldest and youngest, though, I've like the invasion of just kind of screens everywhere. been harder to navigate than it was for the first one, second one even, because now that's just their world. They're immersed all the time and you have to be so intentional to do, to find things to get them off screen. So with my first kids, it was like, they were wanting me to go outside, dragging me outside to go do something. With my younger two kids, I'm having to beg and drag them to get outside and get off the screen. And that changed fast. I mean, that's one thing that's changed. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:07:21] And I've learned to not ask the screen question, the phone, the video game, that question as a capsule of this is the forever truth. Instead, I've asked like, hey, what's the current chapter? Like how do boundaries for your specifically your youngest to like, what is current chapter of boundaries, expectations, limits, like what does that look like right now for you guys? 


    Dave Willis [00:07:42] It is always evolving. One good rule that we've kind of stuck to is that we don't let them have screens in their bedroom. So whether it's a TV or anything, it's like, so when they go to bed, having that bedtime, they don't have to go right to sleep, but it's sometimes the only time of their day, even school included, where there are no screens and like they have to read a book or they have use their imagination or they to do something. And I'm really thankful that we stuck to that. Outside of that, video games, how much you can play, how much he can't play. Like for our youngest one, it's still, he just gets to play on the weekends and then he can like, he can earn weekday time. Sure. And so he's always lobbying for that. He's like, hey, I got this. I'm so curious. What are some of the ways he can... 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:08:35] can earn weekend time or weekday time. 


    Dave Willis [00:08:37] Yeah, so he gets, you know, he can get weekday time like, you know when he gets his report card, you know his grades are good, you know he'd get a bonus day for that. If he, you now, if, usually we let him know ahead of time like, hey, if you'll do this, if you help with this project or you do this thing, the reward will be you can get like a weeknight bonus and he loves that stuff. So having such a strong incentive is good to be able to leverage teaching moments. But if the boys had it their way, they would just, they would be on a screen 24 seven. And that's, it's tough because on one hand, they need to be able to navigate the digital world that they're gonna live in. But on the other hand, as parents, we're all living in uncharted waters, trying to figure out how to equip them to be be able handle the technology, especially when they're out there on their own and they're having to manage these boundaries by themselves, while still letting them have a childhood that's not sabotaged just by 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:09:35] Springs. Right, right. I kind of take an unconventional approach to preparing for these conversations. And I was just random, like word searching around your name and parenting or this or that. And I discovered a poem that you wrote. like nine years ago, and when I tell you that I love you, this poem, do you remember writing this poem? Yeah, yeah I do. It's not a different, Dave Wills, so I'm not going to read the poem, I'm gonna include it in the show notes, but to me, This is just such a theme for my four little girls. And we talk about how much dad loves them. We talk about, you know, how many miles and how many times around the earth or to the moon and back and like we use, but I just, it was such a fun read to think about you expressing love to your boys. And now that'll just be a hook for the guys to go to the show notes and read it. Thank you. 


    Dave Willis [00:10:25] Thank you. Thanks for finding that. Yeah, that's that's a good find Yeah hadn't I hadn't thought about I needed I need to dig that and like share that with the younger boys because I don't Yeah, I wrote that in a different season when the younger boy is like we're too young to even Comprehend it. So yeah, I need it. It'll make a smile 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:10:45] to make the younger one smile. I guarantee my 11-year-old will, is gonna smile and laugh when she reads it. And it was written before AI, so we know it was your creativity versus. But that theme of love and expressing love with our words as dads, would you just kind of, yeah, where does that take you right now when you think about expressing words with, or expressing love through words written or verbal? 


    Dave Willis [00:11:09] Well, I feel like we cannot overestimate the power of our words. And God designed it that way, that He created the whole universe using His words. He could have created it any way He wanted. Then He created us in His image, giving us power in our words, and especially for fathers to their children, the power to being able to bless your child with your words, encouraging them, is, or the negative impact of being really critical. either way, the words we're speaking to our kids are going to become the soundtrack, the inner voice in those kids' heads as they grow. I mean, they're going to hear our voices for the rest of their lives, whether the words were speaking are loving and kind or not. Especially when kids are little, it's like there's wet cement in their mind and heart. And the words we're speak, they are forming impressions there. Over time, those impressions harden and they form their worldview. in large part, based on the way that we're speaking life and encouragement or criticism to them. And a lot of us are carrying around scars of words, negative words that were spoken over us. And we need to do the work of finding healing and letting the Lord bring healing to that. But I don't know, I mean, words have power. That's really been a theme Ashley and I have been leaning into in our parenting, even in our speaking when we're going out, like instead of. just talking about sex and all those kinds of things, which we still do. I really feel like the words thing right now is something the Lord's just saying like, hey, this needs attention. This is something that people are underestimating and as parents, we've got to get this right. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:12:54] Yeah, I wanna explore how words, even relating to, I mean, a couple decades of you and your wife, Ashley. building into marriage and strengthening and going to topics that maybe some other radio shows, podcast conferences aren't going there. And even themes that you guys have titled books and events and podcasters around naked marriage and around like, just like, let's go there, right? Like you kind of, you know what you're getting into, you're going to hit these topics. If I go to words and words with your boys, words can also unlock. categories of conversation that becomes safe and builds a foundation for the future of these boys being young men and married men who have less baggage to bring to the marriage. So there's a whole thread there that I'm excited to explore with you. What are some ways we can use, dads can use their words and intentionality to form a foundation of God's. When God sees sex, when God sees this phase you're going through right now as a young man, when God see what you did, because you stumbled into looking at this thing that like could bring hiddenness, but no, this is like using words like that. Could you, really I'm asking, take us into how you feel about the sex talk with your boys, but I wanna focus even broader than a talk into like safety with our words that we bring to our boys. 


    Dave Willis [00:14:19] I think it's not the sex talk, really. I think, it's the conversations, the talks, plural, that we're having all the way through, you know? I mean, all the through, and it starts young where you're talking about just how God made you a boy or God made a girl and how that's a beautiful thing. Like, we're living in a culture where something as simple as that has been confused and hijacked and sabotaged, so. to just celebrate the fact that God made you beautifully and wonderfully made. He made no mistakes when He made you. Your gender is a gift. It is a, it is a given by God. It's a gift with no return or exchange policy. And it's part of, it's a part of His design and a very important part of his design for your life. And it means that one day you'll get to be a father. One day you get to a mother. and what that means, but to celebrate it and to let them know like your body's not dirty or shameful, yeah, there are certain parts that are private and we need to be really careful with that and make sure that nobody's touching us inappropriately and talking openly about if anybody ever does come to us and, but removing shame from stuff. Cause I think whenever we're, we try to like scare kids with we think we're protecting them, but it's like, oh, we know we don't, we never talk about that. We cover this and what they're hearing in their minds are like, these parts are dirty or something is wrong with me, I'm dirty. And so even from an early age, celebrating the fact that God made your body, your body's a beautiful thing. Your gender is a beautiful things. As they get older, as they start getting older, talking about the changes that are coming. and celebrating it. Again, not looking at it with fear or anything, or even awkwardness, just saying, hey, you're gonna be becoming a man or a woman. And that is so amazing. And here are some things that are gonna happen. Like, you know, you are gonna, these are some of the changes you can expect. And ours talks have only been with boys. So we haven't had to get into like menstruation and you know all of that, which is. which is a whole different realm. I'll let Jeff handle those conversations for you guys. Yes, yes. So I'm more like, you know, we're talking about, you get to wear deodorant now because you need it. You stink and that means you're becoming a man. You're gonna start getting some pubes and that's awesome. And I don't need to see them. But if you want to like, give me a fist bump and let me know when any arrive, I'll celebrate with you. Like, but just celebrating, celebrating those things. And then of course, you know, with time talking about the counterfeits out there, being honest about pornography, which was a struggle I fell into in my teenage years. We've talked a lot about that. And that's just everywhere in the world these kids are growing up in, whether they're looking for it or not. They're being bombarded with these counterfeit messages about sex. and body image, and so just trying to be a safe place to be honest about, hey, you're gonna hear things that aren't true, that aren' real, that are right, that are broken messages, but God has a plan for sex, and it's beautiful and awesome, but it's for marriage, and just trying establish that foundation so that our kids aren't afraid to talk to us about the big questions when they start hearing stuff, and they will hear stuff. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:17:49] The counterfeits, you're your youngest, your 10-year-old, I think that is the average age that kids are exposed to pornography. Was it a few years ago that you talked to that son about counterfeit or what, roughly when? Were you letting know some of the shadow side of God's beauty and how he's made our bodies of like, this is harmful and you can come talk to me if you see something, when was that conversation? 


    Dave Willis [00:18:15] Yeah, so for our youngest, who is 10, I think it was two years ago when he was like eight and we had, you know, we'd had kind of some general conversations about, but I didn't really think like this was kind of an issue yet, but we'd gone on a vacation somewhere and wherever we were. there was like an abnormally large amount of young ladies wearing abnormally small bathing suits, which so like it was just out in his face. And as an eight-year-old even, he was clocking it. Like, okay, this is new, this different, you know, I wonder, I wonder you know what is happening underneath the bathing suit. Cause this is something I haven't seen. So we have Covenant Eyes, we have filtering softwares on our device, and out of curiosity, he did a search as an eight-year-old on an iPad at the house for, I think it was for naked lady or something. And it blocked the search and it sent us an alert. And so we realized that it was him. And we talked to him and he was so like, There was like shame and embarrassment and. He felt dirty, felt guilty. He was just, you know, he was, which is how the devil wants us to feel. And I was like, no, buddy, listen, like God put that curiosity in you and he made our bodies to be beautiful and he make you to notice that and to notice the beauty of it. But when we look at a woman, and just look at her like in an object, then that's hurtful to her, that's heartful to ourselves, that hurts God, because that's God's daughter. And one day in marriage, we start in like age-appropriate ways talk about it, why it's inappropriate to search that, why it is natural to be curious about that, how we have to kind of guard our eyes and... but to do it in a way that hopefully takes the shame away. And then also there were some consequences like, well, I think you knew that that we've talked enough to know where you knew that was an inappropriate thing to look for, even though it didn't, you didn't see it, you were looking for it. And so we're gonna have to take this iPad away for a while. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:20:33] Yeah. 


    Dave Willis [00:20:34] in a way that it, it doesn't add shame, but it lets you know that like, all right, you've got to, you have to maintain trust. And trust, yeah. Yeah, so that was the way that it was for him, you know, like in our older boys before kind of the digital age, I remember our second son, who's about 18 now, I was in a barber shop with him and he was probably about eight. and he was staring in this magazine with huge eyes. And it was like just a regular magazine. And I looked, I was like, what are you looking at, buddy? And it like a lady in a bikini in this ad. And I had to have the same conversation with him right there in the barbershop. But then, you know, he's a little bit more rebellious. Like five minutes later, he's holding up a different magazine, like a fishing magazine, and his eyes are huge again. And I grabbed it, and he at eight years old had put the original magazine inside the fishing magazine. He's covered! 


    Speaker 4 [00:21:31] He was going for it. He was like, he's like, Dad, I'm sorry, I just really like looking at that bikini girl. 


    Dave Willis [00:21:37] Okay, so we had to kind of like double down on the talk, but. It's no no. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:21:46] dull moments in raising kids. Yeah, but that a moment with love and safety, and we're not going to go to shame, we're going to to intentional explanation, a firm curiosity. I mean, this is, to me, this is not what I experienced as a young man, of the safety of, this how I feel. Like, he didn't even say it in the barbershop, of like, I like looking, like. That relationship is such a gift, and the moment's a gift of just knowing, oh, my son is desiring, and has been like, so I just love, there's a celebration too. Really, this is what I found through all of your radio shows, podcasts, books, content you've created around marriage and sex is just like... let's go celebration and healing and wholeness. And yeah, so I love that that's the direction you went with answering that question. And there's a, oh, one other question is around, I know you chatted with at least your older boys about your journey of stumbling, of getting the grip of pornography. Roughly what age was that that you actually shared that this was a struggle for you? 


    Dave Willis [00:22:55] Yeah, so it's, I've been really honest, you know, and it's like always honest, but like, as they get older, you can get more detailed, I guess. So with our two older ones, by this point, like, you know I've kind of told them everything, even as they've gotten into relationships, you know our second son, who's about 18, you know he's gotten into a dating relationship. And so we've, you now we've talked about boundaries there and And he's asked questions. And I try to just be like really honest with him, even with the uncomfortable stuff. And he was like, well, what about you and mom? Like, did you and Mom have sex with each other? Did you and Mum do this? And I've had to say like, listen, we did not. Your mom, she's always done things the right way in that department. And when we got together... we both committed to doing it right. Before your mom, like I started out with really good boundaries in my dating relationships. I'd fallen into pornography. That really not only kept me in that pattern of sin, but it eroded boundaries in relationships and little by little, I started making bad choices in these dating relationships and like, you know, where I... never got to the point of having intercourse, like I had, there was sexual sin in those relationships that I deeply regret. And I wanna protect you from falling into that because it's just, you gotta decide in advance, you can't decide in a moment of temptation what you're gonna do. You have to decide in advanced kind of where those boundaries are. And I said, and if you're looking at the wrong things, you're thinking on the wrong thing, it's gonna totally blur and erode those boundaries and move those boundary lines in the wrong direction. And to be able to talk about it in terms of my own experience, which I know a lot of dads are terrified of having those conversations because we want our kids to see us as perfect, but our teaching authority, moral authority, doesn't come from a place of perfection. And our kids don't need it to come from place of reflection, but they desperately needed to come from a placed of honesty and authenticity to say like, listen, this is where I blew it. This is where God, you know, broad healing. And even though he brings forgiveness, like there's still baggage and there's still pain that those decisions cause. And I want to protect you and prevent you from that. And so I've had those conversations with them. I mean, I don't know if it's like a magic age as much as knowing each child kind of where that child is and kind of going from there. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:25:45] Dave, I'm hearing you explain, and I'm confession of sin to God, to friends, trusted friends, to spouse, but it's not confession of sins to your boys, but its humility and vulnerability that feels to me, I am just like cheering as a dad of girls, thinking about dads. going there with their boys and explaining like this connects to this for me this is my journey and how I wish like I could have gone this path and you can go this path like so I like thank you for explaining the answer even though it's not yeah it's a formula but it's uh it's a posture that I pray that all of us dads would lean into with more courage so uh can you can you think of any resources to help uh passport to purity is one that's come up a number of is a, is a curriculum. as any other top of mind, curriculums, books, helpful resources around these conversations. 


    Dave Willis [00:26:44] Yeah, but you know, Passports of Purity, which is a family life resource, was helpful to us. We're actually talking to Family Life now about helping them kind of do an updated version. Yes, that Ashley would create. That Ashley and I would do with Family Life. So stay tuned. I mean, I think that's gonna happen. It's not like totally for sure, but I feel like that's most likely gonna happen where it would be like a video training resources on how to teach kids about sex, which I would so wanna do. Um, for- Boys in particular, I actually have a book out called Raising Boys Who Respect Girls, which is really all on this topic. It's like what the Bible has to say about sex, it's about fatherhood, it's teaching young men specifically in age-appropriate ways how to walk in that manhood and walk in purity. And I feel like that's a helpful resource that not just from my experience, but a whole lot of people's experiences went into creating that resource and there's more out there, but it's one of those areas where there's a lot of room for more resources. So if you're listening to this and you're thinking, man, I wish my church had something or this, maybe God's tapping you on the shoulder to use your testimony or use your abilities to say like, I wanna help. create something around this, because all of us need each other's voices in this. And it's one of the scariest parts of parenthood, but we don't have to figure it out on our own. We can help each other. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:28:18] I'm so glad you brought up that side of, cause that's how, that's my primary way of growing is by learning, gathering resources, asking questions. Like this ministry, Dad Awesome has been a gift to me as the champion of it. Like, right, I grow through. So I pray often that more dads would be the spark in some way. We just need more of us that are saying, I wanna make a difference and I wanna share. So thank you for that. Also your book, Raising Boys Who Respect Girls. That was like my next thing to bring up. So thank you for bringing it up. And like seven-ish years ago, now I have not yet had a chance to read, partially because I still read with a little bit of a bias towards it. I wanna learn for raising girls. So I think it'd be helpful for- 


    Dave Willis [00:29:02] You need to write the, you need to write the girl version, raising the, raising godly, raising girl. I mean, there's, cause I wasn't going to touch that. I'm like, I don't have any experience here. Sure. I'm not going to do it. So I was, I was waiting for Jeff to come along and write the girls version. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:29:19] Well, is there anything, though, in the last six, seven years since you wrote that book that you're like, oh, this is another discovery in the topic of raising boys who respect girls? You know, I know we've hit some of the topics, but there's a whole other set of themes underneath that theme. 


    Dave Willis [00:29:31] Well, gosh, I'll tell you, like right now, the stuff that scares me the most for our culture is kind of the way that technology, kind of, the next iteration of pornography is, you know, not to turn this into like a science fiction thing, but this is where things are headed. Like the AIs come in so far and robotic technology is coming so far that in the in your future, the prevalence of... of AI, very human-like sex robots are going to be all over the place, and it creates this whole moral and ethical dilemma, especially for people that aren't Christians that are trying to navigate this without God's design for sex, where they're like, well, yeah, why would I not learn with this tool that's basically just helping? It's basically, I'm still just masturbating. This isn't even sex. I'm just using it with technology. But when we look at a human form, something that's created to look exactly like a young woman and to react and act and look and talk like a woman, there is no way we can have those kind of interactions and it not objectify actual women. We're learning about sex from, and I think porn is probably going to start going more in that direction as the technology comes along where it's not just with people but it's with these these robots in that. desensitizes, even if you're only watching it, it's desensitating you further from the sacredness of sex and from the sacrilege of just a human body created in God's image because you're like, I can look at every person now just as nothing more than an object to help me get to this place of pleasure. And so we've kind of been tracking along with where technology is going with that. And even this year at some of the big tech shows, there've been unveilings of you know, some of these. you know, some of these, you know robots, people are spending a lot of money and time to quickly develop these on a higher level and mass produce them. And I know that all sounds like sci-fi, but I'm telling you like 10 years from now, that's what the conversations are gonna be about. And if we're all taken surprised by it, then we're gonna be completely overwhelmed. So now's the time to start having those conversations about not just porn, It's not just like porn and vibrators or things like, it's like things that look and act human and how we're called to respond to that is a huge counterfeit to God's design. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:32:14] I'm doing the Bible through the year this year and Leviticus was just like the past week and these boundaries God has set up for sex and I'm thinking like my mind jumped to those passages when you're talking about like no those things are not listed specifically but outside of God's plan was so clear from animals to this to that to relational stuff like, oh, my goodness. I could get stuck here for a while. So I'll jump forward, but thank you for the, just bring it up another category to prayerfully not go and hide from, but be leading on the home. 


    Dave Willis [00:32:50] Well, no, it is a modern form of bestiality, because I see that saying, having sexual contact with any non-human body is just, it's a complete misuse of sex, whether it's back then, it was an animal, or now when it's technology designed to look like a body, and all of that is a misuse. it's going to cause you know, pain and regret and baggage, and it's going to desensitize us. And so Yeah, and just beware, dads, that that's out there and that it's coming and that our kids are gonna be growing up or that's gonna be a real issue and a real temptation, that we need to give them some tools to navigate because it's like, well, my parents told me not to have sex with anybody, but what could it hurt to learn with this little tool over here and... 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:33:46] we need to equip them for that. Yeah, let's swing to the other side of this conversation, which is flourishing in God's plan. Yeah, there we go. So your gift that you and your wife have on your website of the free ebook, Nine Days to Great Sex. So I have not actually, I discovered this just a few days ago in preparing. My wife and I have gone through, I think you recommend a chapter a day to kind of unpack and to have a lot of fun during this experience, but it's going after Some of the baggage, right, some of the, there's so many layers to a conversation about having great sex in a marriage. And could you just give the flyover, we're gonna link it for sure, for all of our dads to go download and dive in. And then of course, all your books, there's almost too many for me to bring up in this conversation, but we'll make sure to recommend and link them. Why did you release this free ebook? 


    Dave Willis [00:34:40] Well, we didn't want there to be any excuse or barrier keeping people from this message. We really felt like this is a message that we wanna get out there, that sex is a gift. God wants you to thrive in it in marriage, but we have to do it God's way to really thrive and how to work through past baggage, how to through our own insecurities, the counterfeit messages we've been bombarded with and to thrive and marriage, to be naked and unashamed the way God intended us to be in marriage. And to flourish, like you said, it's the very, very first thing that God said to the very first couple, be fruitful and multiply. And the very first word he said, the be fruitful, is the Hebrew word parah, which really means to flourish. So essentially the very thing he said to us is flourish, thrive, and he wants that for you in your marriage and not just to survive, but to really thrive. So. Free ebook can help, it's daveandashley.com. And I'm sure Jeff will have that link in the show notes and click on that, get the free ebook. But I hope that it is an encouragement to you and really helps you and your spouse talk about sex with each other because we've talked a lot about talking about sex with our kids, which is one conversation. A whole different conversation is in marriage, having the courage and the vulnerability to really talk about your sex life. your desires, your insecurities, all of it. And it takes vulnerability and courage, but it'll help you get to a new level in your intimacy, both inside and outside the bedroom. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:36:18] Dave, I was gonna kinda thread back to the power of words. And this like, it does feel like you're helping, you're giving the gift of this ebook to guide. men, the dads listening right now, often it's the words, it's talking about, it's expressing that I struggle with. So I'll be the first to say thank you. And I want to add more intentionality on that front of words, conversation, talk about versus just being, rhythms or patterns of feeling stuck in this area. That will actually, I think there's probably some link to flourishing that gives us more courage to talk to our kids and have those conversations with our kids. So it's probably all overlapping. But do you have any last just any last words any last thing you want to share with our dad awesome community? 


    Dave Willis [00:37:00] Well, I want to applaud you dads for, hey, you've listened to the end, way to go, way to finish strong. And thank you for taking time to invest in being a better dad, which is what you're doing by listening to this podcast. I just think it is the best thing that we as men can focus on improving. We spend so much time trying to improve our health or our golf game or whatever it is. And those things are all fine and good, but. But really, the things that are gonna impact eternity and legacy, I can't think of anything more valuable than just improving his dads. And it's something I wanna keep getting better at every day. And I appreciate you, Jeff, and what you're doing to lead this community. So just wanna affirm you dads, because I know we can be so hard on ourselves sometimes and hear those negative soundtracks in our mind, a fair place that we feel like we're not measuring up. But just know, like, you are. Just the fact that you're listening to this now tells me a lot about your character and your desire. And so I just wanna affirm you and cheer you on in that. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:38:03] That's good, thank you. Can you say a short prayer over all of us dads? 


    Dave Willis [00:38:06] Absolutely. Father, I lift up every dad that's listening. I pray for Jeff that you would continue to bless him and his precious four daughters and his wife in this ministry and continue to, Lord, just expand the reach of the important message that he's sharing here. And I pray for every dad that's listening. all over the world right now, whenever and wherever they're listening, I just believe they're not listening by accident that you've brought them to this moment to encourage them, to equip them, to remind them that you're with them and for them in their fatherhood journey. And just help all of us as men, God, to pass along generational blessing instead of baggage to our kids. Help us, Lord, to speak words of life. Help us Lord to receive the words of live you have spoken over us in your word. And, uh... love our kids out of the overflow of love in our heart for you. We love you, Lord. We thank you for the gift of fatherhood and we thank you for being the only perfect father and for loving us so well. In Jesus' name, amen. 


    Jeff Zaugg [00:39:10] Thank you so much for joining us for episode 376 with Dave Willis, all the conversation links, the links to Dave's books, the other resources that him and his wife have created. They've got a free ebook, Nine Days to Great Sex, and then the parenting book about raising boys who respect girls. That's all gonna be linked at the podcast page at dadawesome.org slash podcast. And then just look for the most recent. episode 376 guys thanks for listening we talked about a lot of topics I want to encourage you let's be dads with a bias towards action What is it you heard today? You can even skim back through the show notes, the transcripts of our key takeaways again, are at that link I mentioned and in your podcast player. Is there something, is there one way that you can take a bias towards action, being a dad of action? Dad awesome is not good intent. It's dads who move towards action and pursuing the hearts of your family, your kids, adjusting your priorities in alignment with taking action. So I wanna pray that there's one. action point from after listening today. Praying for you, cheering for you. Have a great week, guys. 


    • "Being present in these moments in like every single day looking for the undistracted one-on-one conversation with each kid, trying to connect with them in their world each day. It doesn't have to be big or fancy or structured, but being intentional about that, those tend to be my best moments of the day." [00:05:41]

    • "We cannot overestimate the power of our words. And God designed it that way. He created the whole universe using His words... the words we're speaking to our kids, they're gonna become the soundtrack, the inner voice in those kids' heads as they grow. I mean, they're gonna hear our voices for the rest of their lives." [00:01:12]

    • "When our kids, what they see in us, they think is healthy and they think it's normal, even if it's totally broken." [00:05:59]

    • "Your teaching authority, moral authority, doesn't come from a place of perfection... but they desperately needed to come from a placed of honesty and authenticity to say like, listen, this is where I blew it." [00:25:43]

    • "Let's be dads who pass along generational blessing instead of baggage to our kids." (This is from his closing prayer) [00:39:05]

 

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375 | Experiential Christianity, Lingering with Jesus, and The War for Your Attention (John Eldredge)