Episode 255 Transcript (Brook Mosser: Part 2)

Episode 255 (Brook Mosser: Part 2)

Podcast Intro: [00:00:01] Being a great father takes a massive amount of courage. Instead of being an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a decent leader. The oldest dad in the world gave you this assignment, which means you must be ready for it. As a dad, I get on my knees and I fight for my kids. Let us be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. I want encounters with God where He teaches me what to do with my kids. I know I’m going to be an awesome dad because I’m give it my all.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:00:39] Hey guys, welcome back to dadAWESOME. Today, episode 255, is the second half of my conversation with Brook Mosser. I met Brook a couple of years ago and had then just developed a friendship with him from afar. We’ll send each other voice texts and emails, and we’ve had some phone calls. And then finally we got together in person in Fort Collins, Colorado, about three months ago. And he’s one of those guys, he runs a podcast called Intentional, so he works with his wife Elizabeth and his in-laws, Phil and Diane Colmer, to run this amazing parenting ministry called Intentional. It’s Intentionalparents.org and we’re just our heartbeats are very similar. He’s got four kids. His kids are a little bit older, but he’s like, man, he’s all in. He’s like, I from a pastor’s heart, but from an intentional dad saying, I’m not only want to press it and learn as I imperfectly parent my own kids, but he’s like, I’m while doing that, he’s simultaneously resourcing hundreds and thousands of of of others and so this is so fun for me. We sat down in person, two part conversation, if you missed last week 254 that was the set up, episode 254. Today Episode 255, more practical and he’s going to go in specifically we start with what’s the intentional process of discipleship for his 13 year old son and what did he kick off just this last summer inspired by Jon Tyson. We’ve had Jon Tyson on a couple of times. And this is, though, the practical, how is someone how was Brook walking out in developing the custom plan to bring discipleship and intentionality over a series of years to his son? So, guys, buckle up, this is a great conversation. Here is episode 255 with Brook Mosser. So, Jon Tyson has released, The Primal Path and the Intentional Father, I know, so that we’ve featured him a couple of times. I know he’s been a part of, but there’s also been other aspects that have inspired you to step in with your 13 year old, your son.

Brook Mosser: [00:02:40] Yes.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:02:41] And I just want you to share your version, because everyone needs to own it, create their own version, and then stick with it and don’t do it alone. Right? So, would you take us into a little bit of what happened in July, specifically?

Brook Mosser: [00:02:54] Oh, yeah. I’m so glad you asked me this. I know you might, you mentioned you might ask me this and I was really thankful you did. Because I think because hopefully it gives people hope that this is like this is fun and it should be, you know, the pressure is there because we’re we’re talking about forming our boys to men. And like, that’s a big deal. Just like the band, Boyz II Men, was a big deal. They were huge. But I think I think that it is also fun. And I mean, just like full disclosure, I look at things through a fun lens before I look at them through a serious one, always. So I’m always thinking, we’re going to do this serious.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:03:27] Wait, can I pause you on that for a second. I mean, why would every dad not look through the fun lens first? Like, why? Like, we’re taking ourselves way too seriously. If we if we look through the I have to do these things. I have to talk to my, my, my son about sex. I have to do this. If it’s I have to’s, the dad life isn’t I have to do versus I get to. Let’s make it fun. Let’s make it fun.

Brook Mosser: [00:03:47] You’re right. Well, I mean, you asked a really intuitive question, and I will answer The Primal Path one, you asked a very intuitive question, which I think why are we taking ourselves too seriously? I think it’s because we have a disconnection to our own importance. Meaning we think we’re more important often than we really are. And whether that’s our job, our inflated opinion of ourselves. And I can only say this so confidently, because I know what I’m guilty of. Like so the reason I can say that confidently is because that is often the case. We are we have a missed balance or an imbalance of our own self-importance. And so I really do believe, it doesn’t mean I’ve have it figured out because I’m more jovial by nature, it just means that put people, if you’re one of those dads that’s really serious, put yourself around people that maybe look at things more joyfully. I have a friend, who I work with, who I help lead a church with, and and we are very opposite people, but complementary at the same time. And one of the jokes he likes to make, and it is very true, is when we’re trying to make a decision about something, whether it’s church related or even like, where are we going to lunch? I’ll ask him a question like, what sounds fun to you? That’s my question. It’s always my question. What sounds fun to you? And he always gets thrown off by it. And it’s not a new question, but he stops and he goes, I don’t know, like, I’m always just thinking about, like, what the responsible thing is. What, how can I help the other person? What am I supposed to do? It’s all like duty driven for him. So he’s never thinking of what’s fun. He’s thinking of, like what’s what’s important. But at the same time, you know, that’s something that, to our relationship, I bring that naturally. So, you know, it just helps him think differently. So I say if, if that’s your disposition, like put yourself around people that think differently than you on both fronts because I need people to be more serious. And so he helps me in a lot of ways too. So it goes both ways. But July, yes July, so my son turned 13. And similar to you, I’ve I’ve had conversations with Jon and I knew the book was coming out, Primal Path, and you know, I had some other family members that are doing Primal Path, as well, and so I ended up thinking, okay, how do I do this for my son? So if you’ve read The Intentional Father or some of that stuff…

Jeff Zaugg: [00:05:58] And so your friend, Jon Tyson, The Primal Path, is a process of roughly how many years with fathers and sons?

Brook Mosser: [00:06:03] Yes, a process of formation of helping your son enter the process of manhood. It’s about, I mean, it could be anywhere from, you know, 3 to 6 years. I think it’s about, you know, for us, it will be from 13 to about 19. So you’re talking years, right? Like, this is not a small deal, but it’s the process of formation and recognizing that a lot of men in our time don’t usually have a rite of passage, and this is all Jon’s stuff. He said it on your podcast and I know he said it on ours and so many other places because he does a really great job of communicating it. But if you’re wanting the quick synopsis or quick snapshot, it’s that process of formation of of really how do we help our sons become men when we have a culture that doesn’t have rites of passages built in anymore? And so that’s really what it is. And he does a great job of giving a lot of freedom and a lot of great ideas and a lot of structure. So a couple of things he he mentioned that we took and I’ll just tell you what we did. So there’s the severing dinner with the wife, he’ll be like, what the heck is that, I’ll explain that in a second. You got the severing dinner, you have the ceremony, and then you really have the process and I’m probably butchering that. So, Jon, if you ever listen to this, I apologize. You can come back on this podcast and correct it because I don’t have my notes in front of me. But but basically, yeah, you start with a severing dinner. So how that looked was my wife takes Duke out to dinner, she asks, What’s your favorite place? Where do you want to go? He love sushi. Man after my own heart. Thankful for his taste.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:07:24] I’m not old enough for sushi, yet. 

Brook Mosser: [00:07:25] Yeah, yeah. Have you, are you a raw fish guy?

Jeff Zaugg: [00:07:27] I probably need to come visit, well, we’ll make it.

Brook Mosser: [00:07:30] It doesn’t mean, yeah, if you don’t like raw fish, I don’t think having it in a different location is going to make it better. But, I could turn you into some stuff you might like, but anyways, goes out to sushi and she basically has this conversation with him. And the conversation is pretty simple, but it’s, you know, son, I’ve raised you, up until this point, with your father, and as your mom, you know, as a young boy, I’ve been caring for you, watching over you, nurturing you. And you now are in the process of becoming a man. You’re entering this thing called Primal Path and so I’m handing you over, intentionally, to your father and this group of men, in your process of formation to becoming a man. So I’m still your mom. I still love you. But you’re primarily the primary responsibility of helping you grow, to be a man, is going to be on your father and this group of men. And so if you come to me and you’re, like, complaining about the process or you’re complaining that Dad’s asking you to read another book, or you’re complaining about the fact that you don’t like this, I’m going to nicely and respectfully turn you back to this group of men and your father who have committed to help you become a man. And so at the end of it, she gave him this necklace, that we have, that matches, and it was it was really sweet. And, you know, he got back, I was like, how how was the son is like, it’s fine. Mom just basically said that I’m all yours now, you know? Handoff, of it was like, okay, this, you’re acting very casual about this whole thing. So that happened a few days before, that was like maybe on a Wednesday, and then on Saturday we did like this massive, this massive, fun, like is a whole thing. So I invited… 

Jeff Zaugg: [00:09:01] Go into this part of who you invited, because there’s a lot of work that led up to preparing for, so who are the who are the people that you invited?

Brook Mosser: [00:09:08] Yes. So that’s a very important part of this. And I think numbers, not important, I think it’s quality over quantity, so I’d say that for sure. But it was a group, groups of friends, obviously, that either have been involved in Duke’s life, are involved in his life or men that I want involved in his life, in the future. So past, present, future. And then men that have various skills and or dispositions that are similar enough to where they can connect with him, but different enough from me that they’re going to be able to offer him something that I don’t. Right?

Jeff Zaugg: [00:09:40] Was your father in law one of those men?

Brook Mosser: [00:09:42] Oh, yeah.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:09:42] Yeah. So, not just generation, your friends, it’s older men, as well.

Brook Mosser: [00:09:45] It should be generational. It should be, and I mean generational, older, meaning you don’t want you want his young buddies in there, right? You want men that are in maybe maybe they’re 19 or 20 or in their mid-thirties, they’re in their seventies. So, all stages of life were represented there. And then his two cousins, who are going through the Primal Path, were there as well. They came because they’re doing it, you know, they’re in it as well. So it was a cool, like brotherhood moment for them.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:10:12] And you asked these guys to commit to just the just that one moment of the hike in the jump or did you ask them to commit for the whole six years?

Brook Mosser: [00:10:19] So I asked this group of men, which is, I think 12, to commit for the six years.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:10:27] Commit to what?

Brook Mosser: [00:10:28] So it’s committing to the process of being present in his life. So it’s open ended enough to go go by like months go by and we’re not having conversations about Primal Path. But then summer comes around, I’m like, Hey, you know how to hunt and you know how to, like, skin an animal or something and prepare a meal in the woods. Can you take Duke out and do that and tell him all the things that you learned that have been important for you?

Jeff Zaugg: [00:10:53] That might be two years from now, but you’ve pre-loaded it because they’ve said yes to the process.

Brook Mosser: [00:10:56] And they’re already committed to him and committed to his process of becoming a man and know that when that call comes, it’s an easy priority that they’ve already said yes to. So that’s that’s kind of the idea. It’s not all at once. But again, it’s like that group of guys. So 12 different guys, he has he had some of his uncles in there. He had, there was a couple of different guys that lead different churches. Guys that, are some dudes that are just gnarly and crazy because they love they love adventure, and like he has an adventurous side, he can be serious sometimes. So I was like, I want to get people in there that are like full blown adults that are successful, responsible, and also like totally in touch with their kids side, you know, so like crazy stuff like that. So we decided, okay, I decided we’re going to go for this hike into this ice cold pool. There’s this pool in Bend called Blue Pool, and it’s because it’s an under, an underground lava flow. It stays 37 degrees all year long.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:11:51] That’s cold if you’ve ever jumped in a 37 degree.

Brook Mosser: [00:11:53] It’s a, it’s an ice bath.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:11:55] You’re falling through the ice.

Brook Mosser: [00:11:55] Yes. It’s it is insane. So middle of summer, we all hike in, before we do the hike, we all gather up and everyone’s kind of at the trailhead and basically say, hey, everyone, this is the start of Duke’s Primal Path. One of the best things to do to start anything is to get a fresh start. So then I took out Clippers and I shaved his head. He had no idea this was going. Yeah, I mean, like, a lot of this stuff was like, and Jon did a great job of this, like, he just he he actually gives you questions to ask yourself. And as I kind of, like, followed that model, I just started asking myself, I, I was like, Let’s go crazy. So we shaved his head as the beginning of the Primal Path. We won’t ever have to do it again, but it was like a marked moment, like, yeah, I was standing the trail, my dad shaved my head and he was game the whole time. He didn’t he didn’t know, but he didn’t turn it down. It was cool. It was really cool. So we do the hike and then everyone and my one requirement, I said it to everyone except my father in law because he wasn’t on the hike, because he had a bad knee. But everyone that was healthy, I said, everybody needs to jump, we’re all jumping in on the count of three, into this freezing pool. So as a marked moment to remember, a shocking moment, everyone jumps in.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:13:05] It’s unforgettable.

Brook Mosser: [00:13:05] Unforgettable. They come out and there everyone’s just hyperventilating. They can’t catch their breath. They’re all like just shooting for the shore. And then me and my two brother in law’s, they we decided to have, like, a, like a challenge, who could sit in the water the longest. And so, yeah, so we did that. I, so my brother in law, John Mark, he made it like 11 minutes.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:13:28] Geez.

Brook Mosser: [00:13:29] I made it 12, what, 12. And then Steve, my brother in law who’s from Canada, swam the whole time and made it like 14 minutes. 

Jeff Zaugg: [00:13:38] We don’t count Canadians, though. We don’t count them. 

Brook Mosser: [00:13:39] Dude, I was like, You’re a seal. Like, what are you doing? It it was it was incredible. So the uncles did, you know, we all did that. Then we go back to a friend’s house, have a massive bonfire, and have gift giving and words of affirmation and prophetic words. And so we started that, and this is going to be gnarly and you’re welcome to take this if you want, but I was trying to find something to mark the moment for his life, you know, how do you mark this moment? What do you do to help him remember this for the rest of his life? Like I went on this journey from boyhood to manhood with my dad and this group of men. And so I had this idea, which took my wife a little bit longer to get on board, than it was for me. But I have a friend who’s a stick and poke tattoo artist, and so without him knowing I had, we started the ceremony. I said this is the beginning of Duke’s ceremony. First thing we’re going to do is mark this moment for the rest of your life because this is an important moment for you. And I have a friend and she came over and she I said, Duke, you’re going to be getting your first tattoo tonight. And it’s a Roman numeral five for the five shifts to manhood. And that’s what it represents.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:14:43] As a 13 year old, no notice, it’s time to get your tattoo in front of all these guys.

Brook Mosser: [00:14:49] Dude, sits down. We picked position, we picked this spot. It’s very small. And if you know anything about stick and poke, it’s a very thin. You know, very we my wife had some parameters and I have to tell you, that was a hilarious conversation. Like, so I think I’m going to get this tattoo. I think Duke should get it. And she’s just like, absolutely not. Like like, you know, all the mom things, like you can’t do it, his skin’s going to stretch out, he’s going to hate it. And like all the reasons after we talked through it, like these aren’t actually all valid, these aren’t these aren’t actually things that are reasons to not do it. They’re just like fears are concerns.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:15:21] His life is not in danger.

Brook Mosser: [00:15:22] Yeah, not in danger.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:15:23] It’sn your forearm. I see it.

Brook Mosser: [00:15:24] Yeah, I have one.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:15:25] Where did he pick?

Brook Mosser: [00:15:26] He picked the inside of his right arm.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:15:29] That’s a painful spot. Right? 

Brook Mosser: [00:15:30] Yeah, but stick and poke is just different. I had some other tattoos and they’re not, it just wasn’t it’s just wasn’t that bad. And he even noticed, like, this isn’t bad at all. It’s like, can I get more? And I was like, No, no, no.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:15:40] I want the whole sleeve.

Brook Mosser: [00:15:41] I want the whole sleeve. So he did the Roman numeral five for the five shifts to man.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:15:45] Do you, off the top of your head, do you know the five shifts?

Brook Mosser: [00:15:46] I do I, I know them but I’m going to actually just read them because it’s better than just me of just spewing them. But yeah, so the five shifts, this is I think written, I think actually Richard Rohr wrote this in one of his books. Becoming Adam, I think is because like, I think that’s where Tyson got it. But the the shift is from instead of saying life is hard, which it is, it’s basically the shift from ease to difficulty. So that being a man like you start out as a kid is pretty easy and then it moves to difficulty, so that’s a shift. The next shift is that basically you’re not important. And that idea is boys care about themselves, men care about others.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:16:29] Yes.

Brook Mosser: [00:16:30] And then, the next one is your life is not about you. And that is you’re a part of the story, but you’re not the whole story. So helping him gauge like his importance, his own self worth and like you are important, but you’re not the whole show, you know, and that’s I mean, our culture is drowning in that right now. The next one is you’re not in control, which, oh, my gosh, like every man, every man needs that. Right? You’re not in control. So it’s a shift from control to surrender. And then lastly, and this is pretty morbid but very true, you’re going to die and explaining even to your son at a young age like you have a limited amount of time. So it’s a shift from the temporary to the eternal. So we did those five shifts, we talk about them and then we decided, let’s get that Roman numeral. And then my brother in law who has his boys in it, he was like, I was telling you about this idea, like, Oh, I wanted to do something like that with my boys. And so I was like, dude get in on it. So we ended up all getting the same tattoo, my brother in law, his boys, and then my son. So we’re all doing the Primal Path with our boys and these three boys are in it and we all have the same tattoo to mark the process, so it’s pretty gnarly. I know that’s not going to work for everybody, but for us it seemed to work and it’s been a great fit and we’ve it’s been really important and special.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:17:41] So, your two months in, there was the there’s the dinner with mom, there’s this moment, blessings, the tattoo, the jump. I mean, unforgettable. Now, now, a couple months in, what do some of the ongoing, are there any set rhythms or is it just you’re planning one thing at a time to kind of build upon over these six years?

Brook Mosser: [00:18:02] Yeah, I think that again, I think you should give yourself a ton of permission based upon your son and your own personality. So if it becomes too rule based, I’m going to be out before he’s out, I’ll be I’ll be like, I don’t want to do this. So I think, first of all, it’s marked by a couple of big moments. So the next big moment is going to be a trip, a road trip with his, my father in law, his grandfather, because my dad has passed to basically go through all the main points through some of his upbringing, to basically go through what it means to be a Comer man. And what he learned and what it means to be a Mosser man. The bigger story, yeah. You’re part of a bigger story, but here’s some of the really key moments in your in your grandfather’s life that have now allowed you to have the life that you have. So that’s going to happen in the next probably six months or so, maybe a little after. And then in the meantime, what I think this does, which I think every father needs to do this just for this one perk, when you take the time to tell your son, I’m going through this process with you and the gift giving, by the way, the gift giving, in the words of affirmation, were the most powerful things. Where you’re giving them a gift to that represents something that means something to you in your journey to manhood. So as an example, somebody gave I gave one of my nephews weights and said, man, exercising consistently is a discipline that helps to be disciplined in all these other ways. So like, take this up, you know, things like that. Someone got him a knife because he’s into cooking, right? So lots of different things. But, you know, you go, you get all these gifts, you have this moment. And the one perk I would just always that has been my favorite so far is that any time I need to talk to him and I need to say, son, hey, like I need to talk to you about being obnoxious right now or just things that normal kids are going through. I can sit him down and just, man to man say, Hey, listen, you know that I’m committed to you becoming good at being a man, not just being a good man, but being good at being a man. And because of that, I’m going to have a conversation with you about how you’re talking to your sister right now because it’s incredibly disrespectful to her, but to any woman. Right? And and the posture of receiving and knowing that my heart is like I’ve stored up so much already in the love of like for for him that he knows like wow, when he comes to say that it’s not this like small thing, he like listens and I that was a byproduct that I didn’t expect but has been really great and trust me, I take a lot of deposits from that love banks at times too. It’s not like this is an easy process or I always get that right. But there’s a posture of humility and acceptance and like excitement to listen in ways that I had not actually experienced.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:20:39] So that you’re inviting him up yet. And that’s not a scolding moment. It’s an inviting up moment of remember what we’re, you know, the long range. Remember the long range. You’re part of a process. 

Brook Mosser: [00:20:48] Yes.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:20:49] I love I love that moment. But I also as I think about my daughter who just turned nine.

Brook Mosser: [00:20:55] Yeah.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:20:56] So how do we continue to, like, remind her you’re part of something bigger, a bigger process. We’re committed to you over these three years. Prepare you for sixth grade. That’s our process. It’s a year which has three simple themes that I’ve talked about in the past. But I I’m so thankful I had a friend tell me, he’s like, I had a chat with my son, real intentionally, about sex and about his body and how God made him, and about the gift of sex. And his son was, I believe, ten at the time. And, and I started crying immediately. He told me like he told me that he had that chat and it made me so proud of him and so thankful and like, wow, it probably is stirring up things even for my own story, right?

Brook Mosser: [00:21:34] Absolutely.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:21:35] That is not just a passive thing that you mentioned, that it affects me physically to know that you did that you had courage to do that. I’m imagining the 12 guys that you brought with, like it changes their trajectory to see a moment created for a son because many of them are going to be dads or are dads.

Brook Mosser: [00:21:51] Yes, you’re absolutely right.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:21:52] This is contagious. And I just pray for more men to have courage, intentionality, playfulness, like do it imperfectly. Do it imperfectly. Right?

Brook Mosser: [00:22:02] Oh, please, do it imperfectly. Because that’s the only way to do it. There is no perfect way. Like that’s the most fictitious, I think is the best lie the enemy tries to sell this is that you can do any of these relationship dynamics perfectly. You only get better over time through failure. Failure is the only way forward.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:22:19] Yeah, fall on your face and then you pick yourself up.

Brook Mosser: [00:22:22] The Proverbs, Proverbs talk about this. Yeah, you’re like, you know, you may fall seven times, but you get up again. The idea like it’s not about the falling, it’s about what you do after you fall. It’s the the moments of the failure. I mean, we see this everywhere right now culturally, like men are failing all over the place, even morally and sexually. And, you know, there’s there’s a lot of problems. And if you’re a man, you’re listening to this and you’re, like struggling or hiding or keeping your life secret, the first thing you have to do is, is be honest about where you’re actually at and who you actually are and come to terms with that yourself and be brave enough to tell one friend. Right? Start with one friend, maybe, maybe the spouse is just too much. I get that. But I also think there’s enough men in your life that aren’t going to shame you and belittle you for being honest about who you are. They’re going to actually go, No, no, that’s the strongest thing you could do is to admit that you fell, so you can get back up.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:23:08] And there’s some guys listening right now that are saying, I can’t create this pathway for my son because of some stuff going on that you’re alluding to right now that like, hey, I’ve I’ve screwed up. Hey, I’ve been unfaithful. Hey, I’ve been looking at things online like, hey, there’s all kinds of, like, lies that are saying, I can’t do that. I actually believe that with purposefulness, there are some dads that are going to put a date on the calendar, it might be six months from now, might be three months out, and say, I’m going to step in, pull a group together and invite my son into a bigger story and to be a part of this. It could be a son who’s a junior in high school, doesn’t matter. Right? Just invite in. And and I’m actually going to do some hard work of of pulling brothers, like you said, around me, because I don’t want to stand around that bonfire when words of blessing are spoken over my son and know that I have something hidden that I can’t actually, with a full heart, bless my son. So I actually think that having the bigger purpose beyond ourselves and getting pure ourselves and and stopping doing this or that, like we actually need purposeful, like, journeys with our sons to give us a reason to do the hard work and to step into freedom. The place I wanted to land is you rode an Uber, I believe, up from the airport up here in Colorado to where we’re at now. And let’s say your Uber driver found out that you work for Intentional and that you’re you’re passionate about being a dad and you only had like two or three minutes left before he’s going to drop you off. And he’s like, well, give me some, what are you learning? Like what, what would you pass on? So, you don’t know anything about context, he’s not even taking time to explain age of kids or anything or faith or anything. They’re just like, Well, give me some, drop some wisdom on me, give me some tools, some advice. What would be your top of mind, as we land, and want to pass this on to that Uber driving dad?

Brook Mosser: [00:24:55] I think the first thing that comes to my mind is get in touch with your own depravity, meaning be honest with yourself about who you really are and don’t, I think, honestly, Romans 12, think of yourself with sober judgment according to the faith given to you. Meaning, just realize that you might have some work to do and I think that’s really important because that’s one of the only things that opens up the floodgates to what I would say next, which is, What you don’t transform, you transmit. I’m not, obviously, I didn’t make that up. So many other wiser people have. You can say we don’t we can’t pass on what we don’t possess. You can say it. And however, whatever…

Jeff Zaugg: [00:25:36] Alliteration is ideal, though. 

Brook Mosser: [00:25:37] Yeah, it’s just helpful to remember. Whatever you want to say, you can never give your kids something, if you don’t go on the journey. So I would probably tell them, get in touch with your own, humility, essentially get in touch with your own depravity. Secondly, do the work, because if you don’t do the work, it will be passed on. And then thirdly, don’t go at it alone. Between the power of the Spirit, friends, community, counselors. The funniest thing when you read the Scriptures, in my personal opinion, is God never says in the Scriptures, all you need is me. You don’t need anyone else. You only need me. He says you need me and the primary way He gives us examples to live that out is with other people and close deep relationships. So I would just say, man, that’s for me, I would if any dad, if any dad ever asked, like that’s that is my general, I’d say that’s my general response is get in touch with it and then please do it within community and have at least one friend, I know I have one friend and he I would say he’s my closest friend probably because he he knows the most. But get one friend that you can literally tell everything to. Preferably, and I don’t mean like like in like tell your wife everything, talk to your wife, but have a safe place where you can be honest and raw and confess anything that has just come up and and honestly, just been stuff that you need to to have that practice of confession is beautiful and very important. So that’s what I would tell the Uber driver. And it was a guy and all I got, I got some of his story, but I wasn’t he never asked what I did, so I just kept hearing about his weight loss journey, which was great, by the way, he lost 25 pounds the last eight weeks. Great guy, can’t remember his name, but very sweet guy.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:27:22] Way to go. Your your necklace, I know your son has one as well. Yours says climb or climber?

Brook Mosser: [00:27:27] Climb. 

Jeff Zaugg: [00:27:29] Climb. And you explained a little bit of the reason. But this you’ve mentioned number of times during this conversation that that like the dad life is hard it’s it’s hard and harder actually is good.

Brook Mosser: [00:27:42] I don’t know yet. I’m still trying to figure that out. Hard is good.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:27:44] Say one more time, though. Why? Why climb?

Brook Mosser: [00:27:46] Why climb? Yeah. There was an impactful moment, probably six months ago, when I was talking to my therapist and I was coming to him with all the woes and the like, I wasn’t, I wasn’t in the space I am today. Not that I’ve improved so much, but rather just like I was in a hard, it was a harder space. And complaining, frustrated, mad. And he basically explained like personality wise, you more suit like a bandleader, where you you’re leading the crew to go have fun and it’s a beautiful experience and life is good and things are joyful, that’s how you’re naturally designed. But your life circumstances are that of needing to climb a mountain every day, and you’re not necessarily equipped for that, naturally. He said, your wife actually, is more well equipped for that than you are, naturally. I was like, That doesn’t surprise me because…

Jeff Zaugg: [00:28:36] It doesn’t help me either.

Brook Mosser: [00:28:37] Yeah, it doesn’t help me. She’s faring a lot better than I am, but like, that makes sense. But he said, your job is to wake up every day and to remember to climb. Because that is the only way you’re actually ever going to get to joy is to climb to it. And that was really hard because I don’t like climbing and I don’t like that idea. And I could get really mad that that that that’s an is but the fact is, that’s truth. That is a lot of my life and I can reject it and I can get mad at God or I can say Jesus, today your Holy Spirit has to be like on point with me because I do not have it in myself. So I’m going to depend on that power. I’m going to ask for you to help. And so that’s what it stands for. And my wife got it for me as a Father’s Day gift. And then she, when my son started Primal Path, a month later, she got him the same exact necklace with a word for him, that’s another story, but with a word for him on it.

Jeff Zaugg: [00:29:34] So I was hoping you could pray for me and pray for all the dads listening to have the courage to climb and to shatter a little bit of the expectation that, oh, tomorrow, next month is going to be easier. Like, I think we just need to get rid of that expectation to be like, no, God is equipped and he’s invited me in to climb, to do the hard work and to do it for our kids and our grandkids and our spouse. So if you just pray for courage, but also that perspective for all of us.

Brook Mosser: [00:29:59] To climb. Yes, I’d be honored to. Thanks for thank you for ending us this way. I think this is great. Holy Spirit, I thank you that prayers work over the digital medium. And I ask right now for those men who are just really tired, exhausted, overwhelmed and would love to stop climbing. I ask that you would give endurance, you’d give hope, you’d give perspective to the, as these sound waves enter ears that go into eardrums, that are processed into words, into people’s minds and their very brains. I ask God that these words would unlock truth, that open up hope and joy and freedom to men that are listening right now. I pray that you would do that and that God, it would be a gift. I thank you for Jeff and this ministry, I pray for blessing over him and his family and for fruit. I pray, as your word says in John, that we’re giving grace upon grace. And even if you look into that and understand what the Greek is behind that and you like actually break it down, it’s grace upon grace, favor upon favor, blessing upon blessing, gift heaped upon gift. So I pray that over Jeff and dadAWESOME and all that are listening today, would you give them the grace. And God for those who have messed up would you show them that they’re never too far for forgiveness, never too far for that grace that you’re just so excited to give them. Bring hope, bring life, bring joy today. Amen. 

Jeff Zaugg: [00:31:33] Thank you so much for joining us for Episode 255 with Brook Mosser. All the conversation notes, the links, directly to the film series that Intentional has created, the book Raising Passionate Jesus followers. It’s all going to be at dadAWESOME.org/255. Guys, thank you for listening today. Thank you for leaning in and saying, man, I’m not done learning. I’m going to do this imperfectly, but man, I’m going to bring passion, I’m going to bring intentionality, I’m going to bring my whole heart to the dad life. I’m going to add some LIFE to the dad life. I’m going to be dadAWESOME for my kids. I’m cheering for you guys. I’m praying for you guys. Have a great week.