Episode 178 | Mark Batterson - Transcript: Mark Batterson [00:00:02] Harder is better. At the end of your life, you're not going to look back on the things that didn't take much effort. You're going to look back on the hardest things that you went through. Podcast Trailer [00:00:23] Welcome to dadAWESOME. Welcome to dadAWESOME. Welcome to dadAWESOME. You've joined a movement of intentional Christian dads who are adding life to the dad life. Thanks for taking a courageous step towards learning and growing and being mentored as you become dadAWESOME for your kids. On this podcast, my dad, Jeff Zaugg, interviews intentional dads from all around the world as he explores the path of becoming dadAWESOME. Jeff Zaugg [00:00:53] Thank you so much for joining us for Episode 178 of dadAWESOME. My name is Jeff Zaugg and this is Father's Day week. So 2021 Father's Day is coming at you. And we've been praying about, and are like who should be our guest this week. And we're thankful, you know, nine months ago we interviewed him already. So Pastor Mark Batterson from Washington, D.C. He's joining us back again for round two with dadAWESOME. And today is part one of that conversation. So we did a two part conversation. We're going to sandwich Father's Day. So we've got Mark Batterson today. And then next week, Thursday, episode 179, you're going to get part two with, Pastor Mark Batterson. But I want to let you know, this Father's Day weekend coming up, Father's Day is a big deal. And we're thankful that you are a dad, you're a father. So we celebrate you. We're throwing confetti. We're cheering for you. Here at dadAWESOME. But we created something the day after Father's Day. It's the day after Father's Day, June 21st is dadAWESOME day. Father's Day is: way to go! Thanks for being a dad. DadAWESOME Day is a declaration day, a decision day. And it is our launch pad to a year of becoming DadAWESOME. So this is the first year we've ever hosted dadAWESOME Day and it's simply going to be giving you four options for: I'm going to choose to opt in to a pathway, a daily decision to be dadAWESOME this year. And we're going to send you a monthly text message to remind you about that decision. Again, you you got four different options. That's all going to be released on dadAWESOME Day, June 21st. So to stay in the loop on all things dadAWESOME and specifically dadAWESOME Day, you need to text us. You need to text 651-370-8618, send a text message. Just text the word "DAD" to 651-370-8618. All right. You're in the loop. Also, just a heads up: Minneapolis Fathers for the Fatherless - You've got one week,  a week and a half, June 27th is the deadline. There's like one hundred and twenty dads already signed up for this 100 mile bike ride. But I want to just give you a heads up. That we're coming up on Philadelphia's deadline and of the front range their deadline. There's five cities biking 100 miles for the fatherless this year. We're going to raise a million dollars this year. So F4F.bike to stay in the loop on that. OK, enough Fathers Day announcements and invitations. Again, this is episode one hundred and seventy eight with Pastor Mark Batterson. Let's go after. Jeff Zaugg [00:03:25] Well we're talking dad life, and this is our Father's Day episode. Every year we get to pray about, God, who's the voice that you'd want to just challenge and encourage all of our community, which, now this is our third year rolling through Father's Day as a ministry. We're so thankful. But thanks for being our guest today and thanks for just talking the dad life with us. Mark Batterson [00:03:42] There's no life I love more than the dad life. Jeff Zaugg [00:03:45] Well, I thought we'd start with this crazy idea. So you wrote this in your new book, Win the Day,  you wrote that there's this approach which is yelling, this is crazy, this is crazy. This is crazy. And then and then it flips to this. Awesome. This is awesome. Yeah. This was from a story of I believe you ran off a cliff with a pair of paragliding. Yeah. Tell the story. Mark Batterson [00:04:07] OK, so hike the Inca trail to Machu Picchu with my oldest son, Parker, and one of our life goals was paragliding. But, Jeff, let's be honest, some goals look better on paper than when you're staring at the Sacred Valley, 14,000ft below. And I'll be honest, like I'm scared of heights. And then the guy, my tandem partner, was about half my height. Now you're 6'7", you've got me by a couple of inches. But my tandem partner, like, was kind of up to my chest. Maybe he's in charge and speaks Spanish and, yo hablo un poco espanol, and literally says you run off the cliff as fast as you can and then lift your legs. I'm like, that's all you've got. That's what you're telling me. And so, Jeff, I did what any good dad would do, I let my son go first. After you after you served him. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So but I tell you what, I did learn that lesson, that as I'm running, I'm thinking this is crazy. And then you catch an updraft and it's like, this is awesome. I did, footnote, throw up seven times while in flight. And let's just say that my tandem partner behind me...I gave him a tip. Jeff Zaugg [00:05:41] Oh, my. Now another life. I think there's a lot of us listening that might today, yesterday, we're like, this is crazy, it's crazy. And we're believing that it's going to be awesome in the short term. We do talk about that principle a little bit. Mark Batterson [00:05:53] Yeah. I mean, you you aren't going to hear the Hallelujah Chorus. In fact, turn it into during a year of discipleship with my kids. I would do in FSN, a father son meeting and we would go to a Barnes and Noble or a coffee shop or bagel shop. Jeff, most of those meetings, there wasn't some angelic choir. There wasn't handwriting on the wall. It wasn't like this "aha" moment. But they added up over time and you do fifty two of those and maybe two or three of them turn into "that was awesome" moments. So I think it's, it's the idea of doing the right things as a dad day in and day out. And then, you know, there are those moments that are pretty special and and for the record, get to the bottom of the Sacred Valley and on Terra Firma. And both my son and I, having checked that goal off the list, certainly ranks right up there in terms of memories that you'll never forget. Jeff Zaugg [00:07:02] It's incredible. I might steal that one from my life goal list because it sounds fantastic, with one of my daughters that would be incredible. Now, you also you wrote this, you said, "Your actions are perfectly designed to achieve the results that you're getting." You're talking about the grand gesture. And I do think sometimes will will complain about I'll do this. I'll complain about the results that I'm getting. Yeah, but I'm choosing I'm still I'm the one putting the input into that action. Yeah. And it's easy just to say, well, what's wrong? What's wrong. But I keep doing the same things, getting the same outcomes back. Is that the definition of insanity. Mark Batterson [00:07:34] I do this. I think it is pretty sure. Jeff Zaugg [00:07:36] Yeah. So would you talk about this idea of the grand gesture actually choosing to change upstream? Because we know we want to see a desired change downstream? Yeah. Mark Batterson [00:07:45] Yeah. Well, let me have a little bit of fun with this. Let's go. So a few years ago, I'm doing this life plan with a life coach and I'm complaining that I'm feeling fatigued, like I don't know why I'm so tired. And so we're into this two day retreat. And around noon on the second day, he says, Mark, let let me just make an observation. You got up pretty early this morning. You're an early riser. You got up. I noticed you didn't eat breakfast. You didn't eat breakfast. And then we did our session, which was a couple of hours. And then you went running all of this before you had anything to eat. Is it possible that that might be the cause of your fatigue? Like sometimes we just need a Captain Obvious in our lives that like, hey, like your systems.. How's that working for you? And so it's kind of fun looking back that, you know, sometimes we just have a hard time getting perspective on the things that are even causing the problems in our lives. So that's kind of my first reaction. Do you want to talk about grand gestures for a little bit? Jeff Zaugg [00:08:55] Well, let's go back. Let's go further. Yeah. Yeah. Mark Batterson [00:08:58] So I think in in psychology would be called a commitment device. You've got to find some way to burn the boats or burn the bridge or just, you know, a grand gesture. Well, I'll give you a personal example. I felt called to write at twenty two, but I didn't write a book until thirty five. That's thirteen years. But I leveraged my thirty fifth birthday as a deadline. I said I am not turning thirty five without a book to show for it. And so that was kind of a grand gesture moment. And you know I think for some guys listening that maybe it's making a phone call like, you need counseling. Number one, that's nothing to be embarrassed about. I've never met anybody who doesn't need counseling if they're being honest, at some point. Absolutely. So a grand gesture can be setting up a counseling appointment. It can be applying for graduate program like you name it. It doesn't. It's just doing something that signifies, I'm making a move towards solving this problem or accomplishing this goal. Jeff Zaugg [00:10:10] Let's go into the bike ride for a moment. And this isn't going to apply to everyone listening because we're only in five cities this year. Yes, but most of the listeners have heard about Fathers for the Fatherless. This crazy idea of, let's put an actual date on the calendar and let's invite dads to go after this mission of helping the fatherless. We give half the money global. It's a global partner, half the money to a local partner, and it's all about rallying dads for a cause that breaks God's heart, but doing it with brotherhood, doing it with other dads. And again, by putting a date on the calendar, we're forcing our schedule around a preparation season to something that will make us stronger. It's going to be fun. It's going to be epic. It's going to have some friends and we're going to grow in our intentional fatherhood journey by doing a hard thing physically. We believe our hearts are going to be more receptive to, to maybe what God wants to do inside of us that will change our connection with our kids and potentially their trajectory. That's our prayer. Yeah. Why did you say yes to flying to Minnesota to join this tall podcast host of dadAWESOME? Why did you say yes? Mark Batterson [00:11:08] Well, there are a couple of things. I love the cause. For starters, I mean, our heavenly father, that's who he is, that he has a heart for the fatherless. And I think it's just it's the easiest cause in the world for me to sign on to and say I want to be a part of that. And then, Jeff, I always look for an annual challenge and that may be hiking the Grand Canyon rim to rim one year with one of my sons or or, you know, running that marathon. I felt like I've never biked one hundred miles. Now, you know this. I tried to ride, but I only made it one hundred kilometers, which is what, sixty to sixty three miles. And I was like, no, I did not check that goal off the list. I think that would be cheating. We're not in Canada where it's kilometers. We're we're in America. And so I thought I want to check that goal off the list. And, you know, my oldest son is going to do it with us and he loves to bite. And if there's anything I've learned about being a dad, you've got to learn to love with your kids and do some of that, because that's going to then let you into their world. And so, I mean, he he he's a mountain biker. So I think last year, like, he'll he'll he's like the equivalent of up Everest. Down Everest, back up, down, up, down like. OK, so I'm not worried about him. I'm worried about his old man. Yeah. I will be drafting behind him. Jeff Zaugg [00:12:45] Well it ties in with a mathematical formula that you created so I'll just yank it again right out of your book. You deliberate practice plus desirable difficulty equals doable learning. Yes. Talk about that formula. Yeah. Mark Batterson [00:12:58] Desirable difficulty. It sounds like an oxymoron, but there's this concept, JMD, Just manageable difficulty, that if if something's too easy you actually lose interest. There's not much motivation in hey, I biked around the block, let's do a bike around the block, you know. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not going to motivate anybody. But if it's too hard, then people give up. They quit. So you. I've got to find that desirable difficulty. What's awesome about the training process is there's no way I would have like 20 miles yesterday on a busy weekend for me as a pastor didn't really feel like it, but I had to push myself. So you need that desirable difficulty. And then the deliberate practice is this idea that you're... Anders Ericsson would say naive practice is doing something without thinking about it, and sometimes that actually will cultivate bad habits. So what you need is to have this this well thought out plan when it comes to practice and a training plan perfectly fits that bill. And then in my experience, Jeff. Have you found this to be true? When when you are practicing, when you are disciplined physically, it translates to every other area of your life. Jeff Zaugg [00:14:22] If I push myself physically and then maybe some conflict comes up on the home front, I find myself like, I am. I'm positioned to show more patience there because I have already pressed through a difficult thing here, and that's part of the, even stacking of habits or stacking of these are all things I care about. Can I stack them in a way that I know, you can explain this a lot better than I am doing right now, but that that actually gets me to an area that maybe I would not have gone because a few of these things that are stacked, I'm naturally bent to towards but a few of those areas I would not do. And I have to stack them together. We you talk about even how that plays out and makes it easier? Mark Batterson [00:14:56] Yeah. I mean, as a leader, I look back at 10 years ago and there are things that stress me out 10 years ago that would feel like a day off now like. So I think what happens is you you it doesn't get easier. You get stronger and you cultivate you know, patience is one of those nine fruit, right? Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self-control. And and those are fruit that get cultivated and you just produce that fruit over time. And so I think the idea is just there's a compound interest, not just to money, but to character, to parenting, to marriage, to everything else. Jeff Zaugg [00:15:46] And that's what we want. We want to see this compounded effect because our kids are worth it to put in the deposits. But it actually pays off bigger than we can even imagine if we're willing to take some steps and your hat says, for those watching on YouTube it says "dream" on it. And this this quote I think gets after dreaming and us inspiring our kids to be dreamers. You said every move we make, every risk we take sets the stage for someone else. You're brave is someone else's breakthrough. So it does require that courage, being brave. We're setting it up for others as dads when we actually say no this year, I'm going to do something hard. Mark Batterson [00:16:23] Yeah, you would go. Yeah, I love that. I think it it models something for our kids. And if you can do it with your kids, it's even better because it's such a bonding experience when you go after a shared goal. So, you know, when I did the Year of Discipleship with my kids, part of that was hiking Grand Canyon rim to rim. I did a a rafting trip to the Colorado River and hiking out of the Grand Canyon. With my daughter, we went to Alcatraz and did the the escape from Alcatraz. Now, it got canceled when we were on the boat because of fog. Shocking, I know, in San Francisco. But but training for it was there was so much joy in that. And so there's just something about going after a goal like that together that makes for a lot of fun. And that's that's where relationships become stronger. Jeff Zaugg [00:17:22] Now, this year ahead, many of us are going to expect are going to experience something, some kind of loss, some kind of a, man we didn't see that coming and it was hard. And it's going to come at us without trying. All right. We're going to we're going to hit hard points. Yeah. Now we're we're doing this bike ride. We're encouraging every dad listening to do something to choose to do something hard versus let it just come our way naturally. Yeah. Why would we why would we choose instead of just wait for those hard things to go? Mark Batterson [00:17:51] Yeah, because harder is better, Jeff. Harder is better. At the end of your life, you're not going to look back on... Now, listen, don't don't get me wrong, I love a beach vacation. I love the sound of ocean waves. And sometimes you need to unplug and take it easy. So I'm not against that. But you're not going to look back on the things that didn't take much effort. You're going to look back on the hardest things that you went through. A fascinating study that was done of World War 2 survivors in London during the Blitzkrieg, and so the Germans are dropping bombs on the city, it's the most stressful, most dangerous. Do you know those survivors look back on that time and say that it was the happiest time of their lives? Now, how is that even possible? Because I think you look back... I even look back on our failed church plant, which was our first attempt. And yeah, it was embarrassing. It was discouraging. But you know what? You learn some lessons. You become a stronger person through it. And and it's a story that you can look back on and tell and keeps you humble and makes you appreciate what you have now. Jeff Zaugg [00:19:13] What I want for my four little girls. I want for them what I've experienced more of since my dad went to heaven a year and a half ago. I want I want them to experience some of the beauty that I've experienced, some of the gratitude that I've experienced. I want for them. I don't want them to walk through heartache like I had to walk through as my dad went to heaven. But I want for them those things attached to the grief of things that we don't often, not often do. We sit around a campfire with other dads and just talk about men. I just want grief for all of you guys, but I want what's attached to grief, the goodness that really I feel like I have lived more fully alive since walking through the painful loss. Yeah. How can we take steps of model of entering in, but then also setting up our kids, thinking about my four little girls? How can I how can I set them up to be to be ready for it, but also to experience more of that life to the full even before loss? Mark Batterson [00:20:09] Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, when it comes to loss, I think it's habit number 2, Kiss the Wave, that the obstacle is not the enemy. The obstacle is the wave. And I your question almost requires us to zoom out. And, you know, we live in a culture where we're trying to there's a protective instinct that I have towards my kids. And there's a little part of me that, yeah, I want them to get a trophy even if they didn't win. And there's another part of me, Jeff, that in all honesty, if you don't learn how to deal with disappointment, with failure, with some of those painful things early in life, it becomes harder later in life. So I think suffering is the human condition. And when the apostle Paul says, like, you know, I rejoice in the resurrection, the power, I want to know the power of your resurrection. We're like, yes, like, yeah, yes. And then and the fellowship is sharing with your sufferings. Not so much, but I do think that it is some of the suffering that makes us appreciate the gift that life is and helps us identify with a God who suffered, who went to a cross, a God who loves us enough to go through Gethsemani. And so sometimes I need to be willing to walk through some of that suffering. And if we were sitting around a campfire, here's a fun conversation with guys. Tell me about your scars physical. And you just kind of share stories of the painful things that you walked through and you begin to learn who that person is and the way that they're wired. Jeff Zaugg [00:22:01] It marks us, changes our trajectory forward. You know, one of my prayers for my youngest daughter, seven weeks old, is a little younger than your youngest. Yes. Yes. What I want for her is to experience in all my girls. I want them to experience a dad who gets a little better each year, not not becomes DadAWESOME an arrival point, but it is becoming just a step more each year. So we this year, we've prayed about how can we nudge all the dads in our community to just take a step each year, take another step, and that requires a step every day to take a step over the year. So we've created DadAWESOME Day. It's the day after Father's Day. And so it's going to be for the future. It will be the day after Father's Day. The Father's Day is a pat on the back and say thanks for being a dad. Take it easy today. DadAWESOME day is a declaration day. It's a decision day to make the next three hundred and sixty five days a decision towards becoming DadAWESOME. We're inviting we're inviting everyone. Let's let's be dads who not don't just look at the calendar year and say, I'm going to set some goals and then I'm going to fall off the wagon by the end of January. Right. But often January 1st has a little bit of a it's a decision for priorities for the next year. DadAWESOME day is the decision day to say, I'm going to I'm going to make a declaration, I'm going to grow this year, my fatherhood. Yeah. And that's our prayer. The first thing we've ever done it. But our prayer is that we would just make a decision to grow as. Because our kids benefit, my little girl is going to benefit from all those years and that doesn't stop when they're out of the house either. DadAWESOME day, Still, if you're grandpa listening, it applies to you. We can step in. How would you encourage, though, the dads listening, to prayerfully say, hey, I'm going to take a step this year? Is there any encouragement you would have for for just how they would approach deciding to become more DadAWESOME? Mark Batterson [00:23:45] Yeah, I mean, the first thing I would say that is if you do little things like they're big things got as a way of doing big things, like they're little things. So it's not Jeff, it's not some massive change. Right. But it's almost like a one one percent change in trajectory or intentionality that I am going to, you know, focus on quality time, for example, that I'm going to have an awareness of - am I spending the quality time? Do I know my kids' love languages? What how how did they know that I loved them? And what are some of the moments and memories that we can share together? You know, part of it is time is measured in minutes. Life is measured in moments. It's Wind the Clock habit number 6. With parenting. It's about recognizing those moments when it's a teachable moment. OK, this is a moment where I can step in with some grace or some wisdom. So don't don't feel overwhelmed. I just love this, that if all of us turn the dial on intentionality just one degree, it would make an unbelievable difference. And I think our dad game would go to the next level. Jeff Zaugg [00:25:06] What is the last verse in the Old Testament? Mark Batterson [00:25:08] Yeah, it is. Turn the hearts of the fathers to their children. You read my mind. I was just thinking about that. And so, you know, it's the last message. And then it was part of John the Baptist message that we read right over because we we think repentance. And that is the message. But he prayed the same thing. And so this must be pretty significant. God wants to turn the hearts of the fathers towards their children. And I think when that happens, then revival happens. Jeff Zaugg [00:25:46] Thank you so much for joining us for episode 178 with Pastor Mark Batterson. All the conversation notes, all of the action steps, the transcripts, the links are going to be at DadAWESOME.org/178. I mentioned this earlier. This is only part one of my conversation. We've got about another eighteen minutes coming at you next week. Action packed, lots of like how do we deconstruct, how do we backwards plan, how do we get intentional with our dad life this year as we step into becoming DadAWESOME? Here's a short clip for what's coming at you next week. Mark Batterson [00:26:19] One thing I learned is you can't just set the goal like you got to reverse engineer it and figure out what are the daily habits that are going to get you to those goals. And that's where the magic happens. That's where the hard work happens. Jeff Zaugg [00:26:35] So be right back here for episode 179 coming at you with Pastor Mark Batterson, part two. Want to invite you guys, be a part of DadAWESOME Day, June 21st is coming at you in five days. DadAWESOME day, the first day of the year of becoming DadAWESOME. We're going to be dads who make a decision this year, a declaration to step into more intentional fatherhood. Text 651-370-8618. Text the word "DAD" and we'll keep you in the loop on DadAWESOME day. And these options, these four options for a challenge to opt into, to grow your dad life, to add some life to the dad life. And a heads up a reminder - F4F.bike - Fathers for the Fatherless,  bike a hundred miles for kids without dads. We're going to do a hard thing. We're going to rally together. We're over one hundred and seventy team members have said I'm going to bike this hundred miles this year. And we're we're praying for twice that. So join us F4f.bike, to find out those five cities and those five dates. So, guys, thank you for joining us. Thanks for being a part of this journey with us. This is a special weekend, Father's Day weekend, DadAWESOME Day. Thankful to have Pastor Mark Batterson join us again for part two. And it's a big deal that you're stepping in and saying, I'm going to add some life to the dad life. So let's go after it. Have a great week.