Matthew Hooper [00:00:02] Please turn toward your heart, please. The more you're able to do that with you, the more you can do that with your wife and especially your kids. Your heart is the most important part of who you are. Intro [00:00:24] Welcome to DadAWESOME. You've joined a movement of intentional Christian dads who are adding life to the dad life, thanks to taking a courageous step towards learning and growing and being mentored as you become DadAWESOME for your kids. On this podcast, my dad Jeff Zaugg interviews intentional dads from all around the world as he explores the path of becoming DadAWESOME. Jeff Zaugg [00:00:55] Gentlemen, welcome back to DadAWESOME. My name is Jeff Zaugg, and this is Episode 181. It's the second half of my conversation with Matthew Hooper. So last week was the set up. If you missed it, jump back, go back to episode 180 and dive into the set up. That was the first 20 minutes. We had another 20 minutes today where we're going to go in more practical nuts and bolts. How would we travel as a family? Some of you guys were traveling, some of you. You can apply these principles on the home front as well. You don't have to be hitting the road as a family. But we're going to hit topics of grief and topics of what happens when there's a shift in. All of a sudden it's like, man, where did this sorrow come from? And he really he takes us through a path like this is how we can actually address when there's unexpected feelings that come rushing in. So so it's going to be helpful. Again, I'm so thankful you're listening. This is episode 181, part 2 of my conversation with Matthew Hooper. Matthew Hooper [00:01:57] So to get on the same page with one another and then make choices daily to stay on the same page, that means you have a daily connection. Like for Sheila and I, that would be walking together. So I would just say that to me is like number one. Jeff Zaugg [00:02:13] Were you on the same page when it came to how much time you were going to with your job with coaching, counseling, the work that you do, were you on the same page from the get go on that the amount of hours that you would need to work? Matthew Hooper [00:02:26] Yeah, yeah. We were on the same page. What I was shooting for weekly, which was like twenty to twenty four hours a week, which means, you know, my office was the SUV or something. It was a trailer or I'm trying to find, you know, places to meet if I can. Some you know, it was it was, it was challenging but but yeah. So I was kind of the worker and kind of doing that, helping basically fund our trip. Or Sheila was like managing the home, the trailer. And it's because they were all doing homeschool home based education while we were on the on the on the trip. And so we had our rules and it was just kind of like. Supporting one another and in doing that... Matthew Hooper [00:03:15] And then I would I would just say things like, you know, it ended up that my wife, she actually ended up not driving the trailer and trailer, though she she could have done that. She would just felt more comfortable. And I was like, I'm not going to push that. When you're ready, you'll do that. So I wasn't on this trip, but I think in a future trip for sure. But but just figuring out your roles and are you like, OK with it and and doing that on a practical level. So I was the driver. She was like, OK, where are we going next? The kind of the the the navigator and then practical things like stick to your routines. What's your routine when you're setting up, taken down and like things like we didn't leave anywhere unless both Sheila and I did the walk around of the trailer. Yeah. Making sure not just one of us, both of us. And we'd team up catching things like everything is better as a team. Yeah, almost always so. And the most important things like safety. Are you teaming up and are you partnered up? So if something happens, you know, I can't be there. We both know how to do that. The routines of setting up and taking down, which we kind of got ourselves into how we would do that and getting the kids involved at some level. But ultimately, you know, the responsibility of safety is on my wife and I and and what I, you know, shared responsibility, I would say is best. Yeah. Jeff Zaugg [00:04:45] Did you guys travel daily? Did you guys move daily or how often? Matthew Hooper [00:04:49] There were sometimes on the trip we move daily which, but that's a lot of work set up. Take down one night. So we got into more of a rhythm of trying to be at least two nights wherever we went, because then you have a full day when you're not moving and. Setting up, taken down, because it just, you know, takes time to do that. And so so I would say so two nights was kind of the best rhythm because it gives you a chance to kind of like settle a little bit wherever you are. Also, just just expect with trailer travel, like things are going to break down. Even if you have a brand new trailer with multiple things, break down, brand new trailer. So just like, OK, things break down, what do we need to do? Our car, brand new car, crazy broke down and it delayed us to two places for almost a week. Fortunately, it was in Vermont and Maine back in the fall. Yeah, well, thank you for the breakdown. Right. You know, but but I think I think Sheila has her own particular kind of things that she's interested in for safety and kind of like what she wanted. And I had my things. And just to just to keep honoring one another, like, are we talking and like to to make sure that kind of we're working together to make the whole package of the trailer kind of and and vehicle be what we wanted it to be. And I would say, I don't know, practical. Don't leave your keys on the gas tanks between the trailer and the car because you might drive away with those keys on there. And that's a longer story. But we ended up getting the keys back. But it's kind of an amazing story. But that was actually the worst day of my, you know, leaving the keys. They fall off.... But but I think staying with your, like,... Develop patterns of doing things, consistent patterns, daily, day out, checking, you know, like setting up, taking down where the kids are sleeping, you know, when when life is unstable, meaning you're moving. The reality is we all need consistency and structure even when we're traveling all over everywhere, you know? So where can you have consistency? Where can you have structure eating together? Like we'd always eat the dinner meal together. Always. No one's on video check is a way. We're always doing the dinner meal together. So we have this consistency of kind of sitting down together and connecting if I'm not working during that time. So developing, I would say having very consistent patterns with safety in mind, with consistency and structure in mind for your family, because there's going to be plenty of, like, unstructured reality. Jeff Zaugg [00:07:46] Well, that's a good tip for even those of us who are hitting the road and traveling like the emphasis on structure routine and how it helps the family thrive. Like that's an area I know I want to turn the intentionality dial in that area just to hear right here in Minnesota when I'm living here. So we're going to go in two of the directions. But before we do so, we're going to talk about sadness and holistic growth. I just want to I want to hit on each of those topics a little bit. But the same question I just asked about travel of just like, hey, tips, dad hacks ideas to help someone who's going to hit the road to travel. How about just dad life in general, fatherhood journey. You're speaking to speak. Write to me a younger dad. You know, my oldest is two years younger than your youngest. When what's top of mind if you're just going to hand me some principles or ideas or areas to again turn a dial of intentionality, what are some of the top of mind things you'd say I'd pass this along for dad wisdom. Matthew Hooper [00:08:43] Yeah. OK, so here's the first thing I would say. No one can be a dad like you. No one. You're the dad in your family. So own it. You don't have to be, Jeff. You don't have to be me. You don't have to go on a trailer trip, own your role as dad, just own it. No one can be dad like you. And then I would say so once you've owned it, like, OK, this is mine. I'm going to take this. What do you want to do as a dad? What do you want to do with your kids? What's on? I mean, and so I would say. Figure out what do you want? How do you want it to be, you know, our kids weren't thinking about, hey, let's go on a four month trailer trip, it was me and Sheila, we wanted to do that. And so figure out what you want to do as a dad, one or two things and lean into that. And you don't need to be all about just what your kids want because they want some good things and then some things they want aren't was good or they're just not going to want other good things because they're not thinking about it. They're just thinking of what they you. So you're the dad. Own who you are, what do you want to do? Choose a couple of things, maybe it's getting a trailer and doing that, maybe it's not. Maybe it's just Saturday mornings. I want to go and get pancakes at the Waffle House every Saturday morning and let's go until they don't want to go and find something else to do. It's like I want pancakes. Come on, guys, let's go. You know, and the last thing I would say. So what do you want to do. Own your roll? What do you want to do? The last thing I would say is listen to your kids. What do they want to do? And and find ways to go do that. I don't necessarily love Disneyland, I'm sorry, or Disney World, but my kids want to do that. So own it up, save and do what you need to do to get there. And don't be a stick in the mud when you're there. Like, that's what they love. That's what they want to do. So. You know, embrace the joy of being about them and what they want. Jeff Zaugg [00:11:10] I mean, the fact that you said on it that many times, I mean that to me, that's like the game changer. Instead of excuses or grumbling, it's like that's I mean, if we always just do that, take higher degree of ownership, own it. Yeah. And then you're just speaking fund you go ahead. I cut you off that. Oh, no, Matthew Hooper [00:11:27] no, no, no. Yeah. I totally I love that you're saying that because I like the image of or that I guess it's kind of like an example or metaphor of like you turning up the dial volume of intentionality. This isn't like going from one or two to nine or ten. No, forget that. Forget that thought. It's just about you turning up the the volume or the knob of intentionality. One or two notches, one or two notches. Just turn it up one or two notches and I mean, you'll change your life and it'll be a blessing to your family and especially your kids. Just turn it up. Jeff Zaugg [00:12:08] Another area of ownership is in the area of of grief or sadness or depression or anxiety. Like I just had a long conversation with a buddy yesterday that said, I mean, really low last two years and he's experiencing some more hope and more life now. But I just know many, many dads feel like don't feel permission to own that area when sadness sweeps in. That's unexpected. You know, for me, was reading the book A Grace Disguised by Sittser, I believe, after my dad went to heaven a year and a half ago and he he used the visual of you can go towards you can chase the sunset and try to stay like bring hope and chase the next adventure and do this and just filler and kind of numbing. Or you can lean into the darkness and the sun will rise. It will rise. And I mention that book before the podcast, but you had an experience of actually turning back westbound during your trip that there was a wave of sadness when you talk about what happened to. Matthew Hooper [00:13:06] Yeah, so. So when when we started turning westbound, we were in Florida and we started in westbound, like I started to feel like some palpable pain in my body and so sadness. For me often shows up first in my body, so the first thing I would say is like pay attention to your body. And for me, it was pain in my chest. I thought it might be from driving, you know, or like all that. But I realized, as I kind of just kept listening to, like, what is going on here, that turning west meant we were turning back toward home and home. This place at first was not a place of more pain and suffering. But after a year of being here, some an event happened and a series of events that ended up being incredibly painful and hard. And so for me, turning home meant turning back toward this place of pain and suffering and like major loss, kind of tragic loss that was just really, really sad and really hard. And so. And it was showing up in my body as I started paying attention. OK, I wonder if this is what's going on and I just started talking about it. So that would be the second thing paying attention to you. The second thing would be to bring what you're feeling even in your body to someone else, your your spouse or another buddy, a comrade or whatever, and a friend. And you're like, hey, here's what's going on. I wonder what this could be. Just be curious, what could this be? And for me, it was turning back home and turning driving kind of into the darkness, if you will. So from Florida to California, it was a long stretch, almost a month of me kind of processing what it means to return home to a place that has suffering and tragedy connected to it. And once I started acknowledging it, so I kind of faced it first. OK, here's what's going on. I started acknowledging it and then invited people into it and started to kind of kind of accept it, embrace it. Then through that process, I was able to kind of, in a sense, work through it or metabolize, OK, this is what it is. And then kind of. Give it a break, so sadness or lament or mourning is meant to be for a time, and so I kind of have when my coaching work with people, I talk about these movements of facing your sadness, embracing it, meaning getting your arms around it, hugging it, or having someone else hug you in it, you know, which is different than just facing it, because I can keep it way over there. If I can, I can look at my sadness will be there but not feel it. I need to feel it and I need experience it. But the third kind of movement is to pace. So you chill out, you stop talking about it, you get up and you go for a walk or you you go to go go get ice cream with your kids. And you don't just stay in that. You don't you can actually make a choice if you're being intentional to be like, OK, I'm going to put this right here. I'm going to wait I'm going to come back to that tomorrow when I meet with my buddy. And we'll pick that will pick that burden up again. But for right now, I'm going to go hang out with my kids and have dinner and chill out, you know, and watch some movie, which, by the way, at one point or another, quick tip, make sure you have the external speakers off on your trailer when you're watching movies at night, because we watched some crazy movie with our kids and we had left the speakers on. No one told us it was like eleven o'clock at night. I'm like, oh my God, casting this crazy movie, Jeff Zaugg [00:17:10] I didn't even know there were external speakers on travel trailers. Matthew Hooper [00:17:12] children. Let's get that from the speaker's office. But but anyways, all that to say, you need to pace your work with sadness, you need to move towards it with intentionality. Invite other people into that and then give yourself permission to take a break. Whatever you do stuff for, you, like that big stuff, like with sadness, you are being a DadAWESOME. Because basically what you're saying to your kids is like, hey, you're going to have sadness. You need to learn how to manage that, navigate it. Jeff Zaugg [00:17:47] Wow, you know, just to recap, you know, there was a there was a facing the sadness, embracing the sadness, pacing sadness. And I will link to the article you wrote, navigating sadness on the light, on the journey of life. Not a super long, but there's a lot of it really helps to give a framework. And also like the book that I mentioned. Matthew, I wanted to hit another topic, but I think we're going to do is just have to put a pin in for a future part two, with you. And I'm so thankful. I wanted to give you just just a minute, though. Is there anything else you wanted to share with our our DadAWESOME Brotherhood? Matthew Hooper [00:18:20] Yes. The last thing I would say, like even as I share, you know, I'm connected to my heart and the tenderness in with me, in me and deeper feeling. And so I would say to be to be a DadAWESOME, I would want to say, please turn toward your heart, please. The more you're able to do that with you, the more you can do that with your wife and especially your kids. Your heart is the most important part of who you are, and that includes your deep feelings of thought willing and emotion coalescing in the heart. And so to be to be a man of heart, I think, is what I would what I would call dads to above all else. So thanks for this privilege of sharing. Jeff Zaugg [00:19:07] Absolutely. And I'd love for you to invite just a prayer of that paying attention, awareness of heart, but also a flourishing prayer over a dad that maybe feels caught in a shadow of sadness right now. Could you just pray a short prayer over all the dads listening? Matthew Hooper [00:19:20] Yeah. So Lord is real is what we see even in this podcast. Is your presence your your as real is what we see, what we hear. You're here even in this podcast. Your presence is here with us in this moment. And I just pray for the dads listening that they would you would give them the faith and the strength and the power through your spirit to to turn the notch up. Just one click in in owning who they are as dads and toward flourishing towards them, flourishing, help them or give them the next step, one step further to do that. And then the Lord, especially for those who might be feeling sadness or grief or really struggling or I just pray for the grace they need to turn toward that rather than away from it and to invite at least one other brother or friend into that. And just what you give them the grace they need today to not stay of in the darkness or hidden with that, to bring that part of who they are in their heart into connection with others. And I pray. Yeah, just would you bless less these dads in in that today in Jesus name. Amen. Jeff Zaugg [00:20:37] Thank you so much for joining us for Episode one hundred and eighty one, the second part of my conversation with Matthew Hooper, all the conversation notes. All right, DadAWESOME Dagget, one eight one. As you can get all those notes there, guys, it matters that you're listening. It matters that you're choosing to grow as a dad. We actually we created something called the DadAWESOME Nudge. That's a text message that's going to just reach out to you at different points with intentional dad, wisdom, ideas, tips. Sometimes it's recommended resources. So all you have to do to be in the loop on the DadAWESOME nudge is text six five one three seven zero eighty six eighteen. Just text the word dad to that number. It'll be right in the show. Notes below as well. So if you missed it, here it is one more time fast. Six five one three seven zero eighty six eighteen. Just text the word dad to that number. Let's go have some fun with our kids. It's the middle of July now praying for you. And thanks for being a dad who's choosing to add life to the dad life.