Episode 246 (Lowell Seashore)Podcast Intro: [00:00:01] Being a great father takes a massive amount of courage. Instead of being an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a decent leader. The oldest dad in the world gave you this assignment, which means you must be ready for it. As a dad, I get on my knees and I fight for my kids. Let us be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. I want encounters with God where He teaches me what to do with my kids. I know I'm going to be an awesome dad because I'm going to give it my all. [00:00:31][29.6]Jeff Zaugg: [00:00:39] Welcome back to dadAWESOME. This is episode 246 and today I have my new friend and mentor Lowell Seashore joining me from the organization Dangerous Men. And for two decades I have been hearing about Lowell Seashore. I've been hearing from my friends who he has played a significant role of impact in their lives. I've just been hearing a little bit here, a little bit there, a little bit from this person, a little bit from that person. Finally, I bump into my buddy Shay and he's like, Have you interviewed Lowell? And I was like, No, I haven't yet, but I keep hearing incredible things about Dangerous Men. I keep hearing amazing things about Lowell Seashore. Well, since this interview, this was about six weeks ago, this interview, I actually spent last week, 5 hours sitting in a Jeep Wrangler in the mountains of Buena Vista, Colorado. Beautiful Jeeping, we spent a half day together, jeeping together. I drove the whole thing. He let me drive his jeep and we just spent 5 hours together. This conversation is a slice of so much wisdom from Lowell, so much impact over the decades of investing in young men, through Dangerous Men. I know you guys are going be thankful that you're listening today. And I know that this is the first of many conversations that I'm going to have with Lowell Seashore. So let's jump right in episode 246, my Conversation with Lowell Seashore. I have heard for years and years about stories of men who you've had a chance to lead and invest in and raise up that are now leading other men, and they keep telling me about, hey, have you met Lowell yet? Have you sat down him? So this is, I've kind of surrounded you with friends and mentees of yours. I'm kind of I've slowly surrounded you. So I know so many people that, you know that it was it's time. It's time to get the microphones out and have a conversation. And I first want to just say thank you, thank you for the ways that God has used you to touch men who I care very deeply about. [00:02:44][125.6]Lowell Seashore: [00:02:45] Yeah. It's a pleasure. It's always a pleasure helping men see Jesus, you know? [00:02:51][5.4]Jeff Zaugg: [00:02:53] Yeah. I'll read just a couple quick sentences. This is from my friend David, who shared this with me about a way, ways that you impacted his life and what kind of uses as a launch point. So he wrote this Jesus on earth, acting through his people was a waning concept for me until I met Lowell. Most go for the 99 sheep, Lowell goes for the one most like microphones to lead a ministry. Lowell serves his people with a modern day foot washing. Many hide behind a crowd with their sins, Lowell is authentic and vulnerable. I'm thankful as I read those words. [00:03:31][38.4]Lowell Seashore: [00:03:32] Oh my, wow. [00:03:33][0.5]Jeff Zaugg: [00:03:34] Would you for a moment help me and help our listeners understand what's what is he speaking to and what is the ministry that God has called you to? What are you what are you deeply passionate about that you were able to deposit in our friend David? [00:03:48][13.3]Lowell Seashore: [00:03:49] Many years ago, you know, many years ago I was, felt called, I always wanted to help young men. And so I started back when I was in college. I led a Bible study in high school. After college, I led some Christian ministry groups and stuff like that. But I came through it all, I ran Bible studies at the high school, my high school around here. But, I mean, there wasn't at first the first years of ministry was not a lot of what Christians would call fruit. You know, it was like, more on my personality than it was on anything God was doing. And you kind of realized that after a few years that they aren't really walking with God. I mean, they know stuff they have, you know, they can quote stuff, but they aren't walking with God. And so it was that at one point God decided, just do this, teach me about the spiritual world, which he did in many interesting ways. And then after that I, I wanted to share what what I've been taught with young men because, well, at that time, I've already had 31 foster boys, all teenage boys. So I just taught groups. How I came to teach that, to write the Dangerous Men material, was there was this young man in North Minneapolis dealing drugs. And he was drawn to this woman sitting on a bench, this middle aged woman, and she led him to Christ. And he went and got one of his, they're in the Gangster Disciples, a national gang, he went and got one of his gang members and say, You got to hear this, and she led them both to Christ. And then he was a treasure for part of the gang. And then the next week in his basement, he had hidden the books and he went to get them and they were gone and no one knew where they were. So I figured an angel took the books, and then the gang thought he was stealing. So they put a hit out on him that anybody who see him next should kill him. And he ran away to my little town, west of Minneapolis, because his aunt lived here. And then he was like this Jesus freak kid. He had an old beater car and he wrote with big letters across the side, you know, Jesus saves. And he started going to my church. And so I went to his baptism, I had a lake out here, and the Holy Spirit was saying, I want you to mentor him. And I was saying, I don't want to. And by that time, I learned, I have a saying, is obey anyway. If you think it's the Holy Spirit or if it could be even close to the Holy Spirit, or if it's your own thoughts, just obey anyway. And that way I could learn to tell which ones were God's Spirit and which ones were my thoughts, by the results. So I didn't really want, at this time, you know, I've been working with a lot of teenagers and so I just figure if I'm obedient, if I tell someone else in the youth group to tell him to call me if he wants a mentor, and I figure, well, they'll forget or he was, I think he was 18 at the time, he might not know this guy in the church. He doesn't know, but he calls within a few days and he goes, Yeah, I've been praying for a mentor, you know, and I'm thinking, Crap. So he starts seeing me and at that time it was when Neil Anderson had just kind of come out with some of his books in the Steps of Freedom of Christ. So I had gone through it with Neil at a church thing, and it was pretty powerful. So I thought, Well, what do you do with a gang member? You start dealing with all the areas, you know, the The Steps of Freedom in Christ is a spiritual moral inventory of your whole life. So that's a good place to start. So I start with that and then a week later, another kid calls me and he goes, He just calls me up and said, Hey, I hear you're helping working with young men. Can I come over? And I'm thinking, well, at this point, I don't want anymore. I'm also working with a ministry that do this. Anyway, finally, he just keeps asking, I said. What do you want? And he goes, Well, here you have some book or something. And I said, Oh, you've been talking to Travis, is the first kid, and yeah, you can come over. Well, it took him about 2 minutes to get here. He lives a couple of blocks away. I didn't know him, but he went to my church and he's hanging out and I'm trying to get rid of him kind of because I had other people here. And I said, Well, you have to read this whole book and you have to do this and that and and thinking he won't do it, you know. And then he goes, He just looked at me and he goes, I'm addicted to masturbation, can you help me or not? [00:09:16][327.2]Jeff Zaugg: [00:09:17] Jumped right to the need. [00:09:17][0.0]Lowell Seashore: [00:09:18] Just went right to it. In front of another kid, and it's like, man, anybody that honest I could help. So, then the Holy Spirit was asking me to pray for four more kids in my church. One who I knew, because he's a son of a friend, and the other ones I didn't really know, I knew their names. So I just pray for them. And then they just call me up and say, Hey, I hear you have this group going, you know, young men with sexual issues? I have sexual issues. Can I come? [00:09:49][30.9]Jeff Zaugg: [00:09:49] So you never invited them. You prayed for them. [00:09:51][1.4]Lowell Seashore: [00:09:51] I just pray. The best youth work ever did, I pray, they show up. So three of them just called and they just came over so that the last one I kept praying for and then one day I just heard, he's too shy, you have to go see him. And I'm thinking I have to go do something? Yeah. So it wasn't hard because he worked right across the street from my office. So I walked over to see him one day and I just saw him. He goes, Yeah, I'm just too shy to call ya. I'm so glad you're here, you know? It's like, Oh, yeah. So that was the original six. And then I thought, Well, I volunteer to do the youth thing at my church because they have small groups on Sunday nights. And I called the youth pastor, said, I have a group already. Can I just, yeah, that's fine. And then when I got there, there's 12 kids and I go, You guys can't be here because this is just the Steps group or something. They go, No, we meant call ya, we're staying. So that's what I taught those kids, is the lessons that God has been teaching me. And then they go off to college the next year and they start calling me and saying, Well, can we have this lesson or that lesson? And I you know, it was just rough notes, I didn't write them down. So I then I had to start writing them down, like, here's lesson this about, you know, about forgiveness or sexuality or whatever and then identity. And and finally I thought, well, if they're sharing it with their friends and they want me to do this, I should maybe put it in a little workbook. So that's how the book started. I just wrote it. It took me a year to make it short enough because young men, I forget they don't read. So each chapter is like four pages and it's honest and in your face and, and practical. So after a year, I just, well, they got copies as we went, but and I think David was one of the one of the first groups after my church was. [00:11:54][123.3]Jeff Zaugg: [00:11:55] Was that over at, was it Stout? [00:11:55][0.5]Lowell Seashore: [00:11:56] That was, he was at Stout. So, so anyway I, I put it online and it's just gone word of mouth. [00:12:03][6.9]Jeff Zaugg: [00:12:03] Roughly, how many years ago was this? [00:12:05][1.4]Lowell Seashore: [00:12:05] 20, maybe. [00:12:06][0.2]Jeff Zaugg: [00:12:06] 20 years ago. [00:12:07][0.4]Lowell Seashore: [00:12:07] Yeah. [00:12:07][0.0]Jeff Zaugg: [00:12:08] And now you have leaders all over the country and Indonesia. Did you say that? [00:12:11][3.4]Lowell Seashore: [00:12:12] There's there's been a two groups and a three, one guy just started in Indonesia. It's translated into Egyptian Arabic. They have a group in in Alexandria, in Spanish. And, there's individuals around, you know, there was like three guys in Hong Kong. There was this and that, but not a lot overseas, just very sporadic. Except for Indonesia, there was a young man from Bethel who became a missionary in Indonesia and then had the both the women's and the man's books translated, and he uses them for everybody who comes to Christ there. [00:12:52][40.2]Jeff Zaugg: [00:12:53] So before we hit record, I mean, we were talking about miracle stories and that this is just become common that God is providing for each step, not a hustle, you haven't expanded this ministry through hustle, it's been through faithfulness. So saying yes. [00:13:06][12.6]Lowell Seashore: [00:13:07] Exactly. [00:13:07][0.0]Jeff Zaugg: [00:13:07] Showing up for six, even though you wanted one. You showed up for six, you got 12, right? It's like this multiplication. It's called Dangerous Men. And it'll be linked in all the all the show notes, so we're going to make sure our guys get a hold of this. We have a mission at dadAWESOME, a kind of a four part mission. It's the adding life to the dad life framework, LIFE. Real quick, it's I am loved by God, it's identity first, as a love son of God. I am intentional, is the I. So I'm loved, I'm intentional, I'm free. Freedom is this core, like dads who pass on love and and purity and pass on life to their kids, not dads who pass on pain to their kids because they're not in freedom. And then I enjoy my kids is the E. It's pleasure, delight, enjoyment, seeing the role as a gift. But freedom has always been a come back around to like dads who walk in freedom. Men who experience freedom actually experienced fathering from their Heavenly Father, and they can be a father who passes on love. Then the kids get the double father love, the love from their Heavenly Father and love from the earthly father, in that that's where miracles start to happen, right? So freedom is core. You mentioned steps to freedom. You mentioned forgiveness. You mentioned sexual purity. When you when you high level, you were not going to get through all of the aspects of Dangerous Men in this conversation, but give us a little bit more like what you mean by a dangerous man and what you mean by like freedom. [00:14:31][83.6]Lowell Seashore: [00:14:32] Well, dangerous for the Kingdom of God. I kind of after a while, I got real tired of wussy Christians. I mean, it's sad. We're all commanded to make disciples, and we do a really poor job of making disciples. We think it's, to me, it was like disciple making wasn't a list of things you have to learn about or a program. You know, if it was if I was going to make disciples, I had to share my life with them and they could see how I live and that's a bigger point. And I did Bible studies and I taught them truth, but they also have to see my life and see how I live and see that it that I can love them like Jesus love them, and they could go on and share with other people. So it's making disciples who can make disciples. Yeah. The thing the the most important thing I would love to tell fathers is that that spiritual authority that they have in the home is not to boss people around or be an authority like we think of it. Spiritual authority is to protect their family. It's a it's a spiritual protection to protect their wife and children so that if the father does not clean up his own sins and junk from from childhood all the way back and get free in that sense, where Satan doesn't have any legal right to go at him in any area like the sins of the fathers type of thing. If he's protected really well like in that way he has a lot of spiritual authority to protect his children so that Satan doesn't have the legal rights to go add his kids through the father. And and, you know, if the sins of the fathers carries on for three or four generations, maybe you have to figure out it could go back three or four generations and confess those things. Anyway to close all the, I call them legal gates, or the legal rights that the evil one might have against you and your kids. So, my word to fathers is clean up everything you can. So that's The Steps of Freedom by Neil Anderson, does that really well, but Dangerous Men does it for young men just in your face, let's deal with reality. [00:17:10][157.5]Jeff Zaugg: [00:17:11] I spent three days with two prayer counselors and it was called prayer resolution was the was the ministry, the tool. But the exact same format of we actually prayed, Father, show me things that I've done, things that people have done to me. And then it's a systematic approach of experiencing healing, forgiveness, blessing. [00:17:30][18.8]Lowell Seashore: [00:17:33] There's, you know, quite a few ways out there that do it, but just have courage enough to get it done, because that protects your wife and kids spiritually. [00:17:44][11.3]Jeff Zaugg: [00:17:45] Yeah. And as much as so, I prayed a prayer last night at about ten at night, a prayer that I've heard many times of of protection with authority over my household. It takes me about 9 minutes to pray this prayer. And Michelle will tell me, my wife, I'll be like, Hey, can you pray that prayer tonight because I feel in the in the prayer the father has authority. But you're talking about much more extensive than praying, a nine minute prayer. And it's a painful process to go back into. [00:18:08][22.8]Lowell Seashore: [00:18:09] And find out. Well, if you ask the Holy Spirit to reveal it, He does. It's almost like He's God. I am brave enough to go there, which every father should, if you want to protect your wife and kids spiritually, that's what spiritual authority is for. [00:18:27][17.6]Jeff Zaugg: [00:18:28] Because we would, in a physical sense, do whatever we can to protect our kids. But are we willing to do it in the in the spiritual realm. [00:18:36][7.4]Lowell Seashore: [00:18:36] For followers of Jesus, you better do that. Don't be a wussy. [00:18:39][2.8]Jeff Zaugg: [00:18:42] Don't be a wussy. I was hoping for one more, yes. I have to remember because I haven't met her yet, here we go, your wife's name is Susie. [00:18:50][8.2]Lowell Seashore: [00:18:51] Yeah. [00:18:51][0.0]Jeff Zaugg: [00:18:52] Talk about Susie for a moment. [00:18:53][1.2]Lowell Seashore: [00:18:57] What do you want me to talk about? She's awesome. Yeah. [00:18:57][0.9]Jeff Zaugg: [00:18:58] That's what I heard in my research. I heard your wife is remarkable. [00:19:00][2.3]Lowell Seashore: [00:19:01] She is remarkable. She's pretty wonderful. She's servant's heart. She, we have, I have, well, now that I've mentored so many men, I have a group in their fifties and then forties and thirties and twenties. So like last night, Sunday nights is open cigar nights. So, you know, there's about ten people showed up. You know, it goes from a professor at North Central University to, you know, older guys, one who is 67 who brought his 30 year old son to, there's two 18 year olds, there was, you know. But, you know, they all get a chair and talk and sit around the fire and and Susie serves them all, all the time.She could serve 30 meals a week sometimes, but she makes amazing cookies, but she doesn't want to be known for a cookie. [00:20:05][64.2]Jeff Zaugg: [00:20:06] I spotted the cookie jar when I walked in here. [00:20:07][1.7]Lowell Seashore: [00:20:08] Well, she makes about three dozen a day, Monday through Thursday. But it's about her serving hard. I mean, she she's so loving and all the other young men, they, they, I think they'd rather talk to her than talk to me most the time. They always corner her over here, and they spend a lot of time talking to her and getting advice from her. And and she's real loving. [00:20:34][26.6]Jeff Zaugg: [00:20:35] So the way, what I'm gathering is, is what God has given you to deposit in young men. And those young men are all the way into their sixties, these young men. [00:20:44][9.1]Lowell Seashore: [00:20:45] Yeah, I'm so old now. [00:20:46][0.8]Jeff Zaugg: [00:20:47] Hey, as long as we're eager and humble, right? We want to be dangerous. They're all, you're saying, come here, be with me, verses, I'm going to create curriculum and just say go do my thing. It just feels like I was asked to ask you how how many people come through this house every single week or month and you probably don't keep track, but three dozen cookies a day, you said. So there's a lot of people then to eat those cookies. [00:21:09][22.2]Lowell Seashore: [00:21:09] Yeah, well, young men eat a lot of stuff, you know, and we always have a lot of food. We have brats and burgers and, and she keeps feeding as so without complaining. But how many people a week? I don't have people, usually Friday nights and Saturdays are for older couples that are our friends kind of thing. But Sunday night, again, I open it up. So, I don't know. Could be 30, it could be 10, 15. It depends on which groups, you know, it's scheduled. So they have to, it's all schedule. I'm pretty schedule guy. [00:21:49][39.2]Jeff Zaugg: [00:21:49] So I think the transferable principle, correct me if you think it's different than this, is that hospitality in a welcoming let's get close versus far. I think it's a little bit of the like it's the it it's the foundation that lets the other work get done. [00:22:05][15.4]Lowell Seashore: [00:22:06] I think you know even biblically hospitality is very important but we don't do it very much. I mean, in the United States or even around here in our friends, you don't get invited over to very many people's house. Susie ran into somebody who lived here for five years and never got invited anywhere and she didn't know anybody. I mean, that's sad. I was listening to this, uh, Muslim who, who converted to Christianity. He said his mother lived here for 35 years and only got invited to someone else's house one time because people were afraid or something, you know, like weirdness. So we're terrible at hospitality because, I mean, I tell all the young men this, you know, it'll cost you time, money and effort. It will, it will cost you a lot of money. We, our food budget for two people is astronomical. [00:23:05][58.5]Jeff Zaugg: [00:23:06] It's not for the people. [00:23:07][0.6]Lowell Seashore: [00:23:08] That time a lot of you have to intentional like your intentionality, time, money, and so that's the effort. So, you know, disciplining, well, and why wouldn't you? Because Jesus commanded us to do it. [00:23:25][16.3]Jeff Zaugg: [00:23:25] That's right. [00:23:25][0.1]Lowell Seashore: [00:23:26] But so it'll take. It's inconvenient. It's not always fun. It's always worth it. [00:23:32][6.1]Jeff Zaugg: [00:23:34] I joked earlier about circling you by way of your friends and mentees, like getting closer and closer. I feel like foster care and the amount of friends who have adopted or fostered or done respites or done adoption through foster care, it just keeps increasing our circle of friends. It feels like that topic is surrounding our family. [00:23:56][22.8]Lowell Seashore: [00:23:57] Oh yeah. [00:23:57][0.2]Jeff Zaugg: [00:23:58] But I'd love to hear for you and Susie, 31 you mention. Is it 31 young men? [00:24:02][4.2]Lowell Seashore: [00:24:02] 32. 32 was the final count. [00:24:04][1.5]Jeff Zaugg: [00:24:04] You just had a call from one of them recently, so you're still investing in these foster kids. [00:24:07][2.7]Lowell Seashore: [00:24:08] Some of them. Yeah. I mean, one's in jail for life. Two have died. You know, there's, some don't contact me at all, you know? So. [00:24:18][10.5]Jeff Zaugg: [00:24:19] So what started this journey, though, for you and Susie? Start the journey of foster care. [00:24:22][3.3]Lowell Seashore: [00:24:23] I actually started before I was married. [00:24:24][1.4]Jeff Zaugg: [00:24:25] Single. [00:24:25][0.0]Lowell Seashore: [00:24:25] Yeah. And just the problem is you read the Bible and it just screws ya up. You read Matthew 18 and what do you do when there's a kid that needs a place to live? Well, you make a place to live. So then after a while, I thought maybe I should get licensed. So they actually licensed me. I didn't get married until I was 32. So they actually got a licensed foster care before that and then poor Susie married into it. [00:24:52][26.1]Jeff Zaugg: [00:24:52] So she knew this about you when you were dating? This is your heart. [00:24:54][2.2]Lowell Seashore: [00:24:55] Yeah. And or she, I knew her for six years. So she knew the kids. Yeah, but you know, you don't really know anything till you live there. [00:25:03][7.6]Jeff Zaugg: [00:25:04] So, and I would guess different timeframes as far as each of these 32? [00:25:07][2.8]Lowell Seashore: [00:25:08] Oh yeah. Yeah. Somewhat, some together, some. It was a little crazy at times. [00:25:13][4.5]Jeff Zaugg: [00:25:13] Were you coaching at the same time? At the highschool? [00:25:14][1.3]Lowell Seashore: [00:25:15] I did have some when I was coaching at the high school. Yeah. [00:25:17][2.6]Jeff Zaugg: [00:25:19] Wow. What would you share with me? You know, we have not stepped in. We've just helped through some of our friends and helped encourage and pray for others. We haven't started any of the process, what have you, what has God showed you through this? Besides the initial challenge of Read the Bible and it will pass you up. What else would you share about your journey through foster care. [00:25:37][18.3]Lowell Seashore: [00:25:38] Oh, it was, well, it's really difficult because you have to, well, I took teenage boys, only. Yeah. Yeah. And that usually get from my area. Not, not Minneapolis and, and it was most of them had bailed out of or dropped out of or some issues with treatment issues and programs. And so, I mean, it was really hardcore. So it's a little different than, you know, normal foster care. But I mean, you have to be willing to love when you don't feel like loving and care, when you don't feel like caring. And I mean, they'll stretch you to the max, but especially the ones we took. [00:26:24][45.2]Jeff Zaugg: [00:26:24] Yeah. You know, in those principles, it's helpful, but it's also like love when you don't feel like loving, caring. Like, I feel that as a dad with my oldest eight, eight. So but in different ways. [00:26:35][10.3]Lowell Seashore: [00:26:36] I didn't parent. I just re-parented. [00:26:36][0.2]Jeff Zaugg: [00:26:37] Interesting. [00:26:37][0.0]Lowell Seashore: [00:26:38] You know, I would never have been a parent. I've never been a dad. I'm just a re-dad. [00:26:43][5.1]Jeff Zaugg: [00:26:46] Sounds like you have been dad for my buddy who we talked about, David and for yeah, for for many, many, many that you've played a dad role. I don't know if I have interviewed anyone though that hasn't, you know, had a young kid a season of young kids in the home. I think you're probably the first, which I'm very grateful to get a chance to sit with you. And because what God has showed you is very applicable to us, even though there's a chapter of Dad life that you haven't you haven't experienced the same way that I've experienced. [00:27:14][28.3]Lowell Seashore: [00:27:14] I don't know what to do with little kids. I can tell you what to do with your teenage son. [00:27:19][4.7]Jeff Zaugg: [00:27:20] Well, let's go there for a moment, because I actually really care about that answer. So what else would you share with let's say we had some cigars were in your back deck patio area and it's just the focus is, hey, drop some advice or thoughts not that looking for perfection on the dad role, but like, hey, what might be helpful for these dads with teenagers, teenage boys? What would you share with some of those dads? [00:27:42][21.8]Lowell Seashore: [00:27:42] Well, first thing I'd tell him is what I told you already. Get your own act together. [00:27:46][4.0]Jeff Zaugg: [00:27:47] So you can protect. [00:27:47][0.1]Lowell Seashore: [00:27:48] Yeah, you got to to these kids, you know, because let's say you don't deal with your past sexual sins. Well, Satan will use that to go at your kids for sexual sense. I mean, you're just leaving them, you're leaving them open, which you shouldn't do. So that's why it's super important, you know. But today, 99.9% chance they're dealing with hardcore pornography because they have their eye points. [00:28:16][28.3]Jeff Zaugg: [00:28:17] Wait, the dads or the kids? [00:28:18][0.8]Lowell Seashore: [00:28:19] Kids, kids, kids. Well, dads probably, but kids for sure. Every teenage boy, every one of them is dealing with, in some way or another, no matter what. So you have to learn how to address it without being weird. Keep talking about it and normal. So start young. Start when they're young and talk about sexuality as a normal thing in your house. You don't have to give them the whole birds and the bees speech. All you got to do is have it normal talk about sexuality, positive, wholly sexual in your house. That'd be huge because every kid going through puberty doesn't should know some stuff about that. You know, and it scares some men. And then, you know, it's not like I can tell you, I've taken surveys like in a group of 600 young men. How many fathers have talked to their sons more than once about sexuality? It's like two. [00:29:18][59.6]Jeff Zaugg: [00:29:19] And these are guys who are Christians? [00:29:20][1.4]Lowell Seashore: [00:29:21] Yeah, right. Yeah, these are, this is at a conference for Christian kids, two. And like, even some of my friends, like, they don't go the talk. [00:29:31][10.4]Jeff Zaugg: [00:29:31] They do one talk and checked out. [00:29:32][0.6]Lowell Seashore: [00:29:32] Well, they think it's done. They say, no, this has to be a constant thing about that, sex is holy and you could talk about it. Teenagers that's the biggest thing ever. [00:29:45][13.1]Jeff Zaugg: [00:29:46] Do you think it's because of discomfort and awkwardness of talking about it or because that dad is, still has some layers of shame or bondage that there still? [00:29:55][8.6]Lowell Seashore: [00:29:55] Oh for sure. For sure dads have layers of shame and bondage. Almost, I mean, who, yes. Everybody that they need to deal with. And it because of that think gets uncomfortability. And, you know, the shame issue we you know, we say the difference between guilt and shame is that that guilt is I screwed up and shame is I'm a screw up. So it's like, you have to learn that shame is used by the evil one to just keep people away from God. You know, guilt is like there's a cure for guilt. Gods, Jesus' forgiveness. [00:30:33][37.7]Jeff Zaugg: [00:30:34] Well, let's talk about a slightly different, very different topic, Jeeping. [00:30:37][2.9]Lowell Seashore: [00:30:40] I like Jeeping. [00:30:40][0.4]Jeff Zaugg: [00:30:41] So a moment ago we're in your garage, just so fun to see your Jeep. And I have a Jeep guy. Parallels between Jeeping in the mountains and the dad life or I also would welcome, there's a different parallel between just being a son of God, experiencing being a son of God. Any parallels you can think of to the adventure of Jeeping and Dad life or Sonship? [00:31:04][23.9]Lowell Seashore: [00:31:07] Parallels. Well I know that this is my philosophy and ministry, so I don't burnout. Do what I like and invite other people into it. So I so I bring these groups, I do father and son trips and I've done you know, I've mentored the fathers so long, they have sons now. And when any kind of you go on trips, any kind of trip, really. But I love to go in the mountains. The mountains are my thing. And I love you know, I used to take backpack trips for eight years and climb 14ers. Now I just drive up there. I'm just too old to do that other stuff. [00:31:51][44.5]Jeff Zaugg: [00:31:52] That's amazing. [00:31:52][0.2]Lowell Seashore: [00:31:53] So that's why I like Jeeping. It's a lot easier and it's a real fun and you know, you have vehicles that could do amazing things and the and the boys are just absolutely in awe of having that kind of fun where they get out places where they don't know. Is there a parallel that I can make to. [00:32:12][19.0]Jeff Zaugg: [00:32:13] And it's okay if one doesn't come. [00:32:14][1.0]Lowell Seashore: [00:32:15] That. Yeah, I don't I'm not thinking of something. [00:32:18][3.1]Jeff Zaugg: [00:32:18] That's alright. That principle alone, I share that. Like let's not do things that I find like if I can do something I love, bring others along. And God can be glorified. All be raised up. [00:32:30][11.6]Lowell Seashore: [00:32:30] Totally. Yeah, yeah. And so you find, you know, it's like manly, well, even like smoking a cigar. That's like the the young men think that's kind of manly, you know, so that at first I tell you, don't smoke cigars because you like them, you smoke to be cool. [00:32:48][17.2]Jeff Zaugg: [00:32:49] Start there. [00:32:49][0.3]Lowell Seashore: [00:32:50] And then after a while you start to like them. It's kind of like it's more like they feel like a rite of passage. You know, it's kind of like they can't do it till they're legal. They can't do it here until they're legal. You know, but it's kind of I think you should have rites of passage at different ages for your sense. 13, 16, 18, marriage or maybe out of college, marriage, something like that. There's a lot of stuff out there on that. [00:33:20][29.9]Jeff Zaugg: [00:33:21] Well, let's put it on just a future to do list at some point to share a moment of smoking a cigar together. So to make sure that, okay, that's been said that that needs to be on the to do list and I mean brotherhood. [00:33:32][11.2]Lowell Seashore: [00:33:33] Next Sunday night, 6:30. [00:33:35][1.9]Jeff Zaugg: [00:33:36] I will try. We're in the RV, though. Just we're in the RV just eight days from now and off we go for a nine month adventure. So I may not be in the State, by then, but I do want to talk just about brotherhood and your perspective on friendships and the culture we live in today. You mentioned earlier loneliness of not being invited over different people, just not experiencing invites. What have you found as far as guys pulling back versus going into deeper friendships? Any any just observations from all the men you you work with around deep friendships? [00:34:08][31.7]Lowell Seashore: [00:34:09] Oh, yeah. Men are basically not deep friendships. I always wondered, like people retire and and they move away and they go live somewhere else. And I'm thinking, why would they leave their friends? And then I come to realize they have no friends. They have acquaintances or work people, and they don't there's no friendships. So like people ask me, Where are you going to retire, one, I won't retire. Two, I would never leave here because all my friends are here, you know, it's like, there's shallow until you intentionally, like you say, intentionally, go to deeper levels. So for me, the Dangerous Men curriculum gets them there right away. You know, it's just super easy. So you meet anybody, any young man who's been through it will talk about anything. So it creates those intimacy and the vulnerability upfront. But in general, I think most people don't have it. So I think it's super important, though. I mean, that'll be difficult. I mean, you get lonely of just talking about things that don't matter. I heard that quote from I think it was, Moody, Dale Moody said, you know, like, don't be afraid of failure, being afraid of succeeding as something that doesn't really matter. [00:35:41][91.7]Jeff Zaugg: [00:35:43] I've heard that quote as well. [00:35:43][0.0]Lowell Seashore: [00:35:43] Yeah. So kind of like that. You want to get to know people and really know them. [00:35:49][5.6]Jeff Zaugg: [00:35:50] What I found is that that people need the invite, so someone has to be, so these young men, the very first group that you raised up, went off to college and decided, I'm going to be an invite or I'm going to pull others in, and that that by and large, that's not happening very much that men are saying, I'll go first, I'll invite a group . And maybe we haven't seen our dads do it. We've seen our dads maybe not be the initiator, the inviter. Seen them be a provider, many of us. [00:36:15][24.6]Lowell Seashore: [00:36:16] Yeah. Well yeah we I think that's why we, we don't disciple or disciple well is because we'd never seen it done because no one's doing it very well. You know they think it's a program. No, it's just loving people around you and teaching them who Jesus is. [00:36:33][17.6]Jeff Zaugg: [00:36:35] Yeah. The other side that I feel like is lacking for many men it like to build but don't know how is relationships with older men that can father them? Do you have any advice on how to help see young dads listening today that's just looking for, I actually spent the entire day Saturday riding in a pickup truck with a a man who's about 20 years older than me. And I just treasured that day. Like, the conversation was just such a gift. And he's someone that I've known for a long time, but I'm like, Man, this was a treasure, this was a gift. For a guy who doesn't have that older man who they can respect and look up to that. What are some ways that they can go find that person any any just ideas? [00:37:15][40.3]Lowell Seashore: [00:37:17] Good question. I have no idea except that if you looking well I think the first thing is ask the Holy Spirit to show them to you. I mean, you know, He does things that God, He does things. So if you're not asking, it'd be pretty tough. So if you're asking God's spirit to show you who that might be able to help you, I think you start to find people around you. [00:37:40][22.8]Jeff Zaugg: [00:37:41] It's full circle to where we started with you prayed for young men who had a heart and you did not invite them except for that one shy one.. But so maybe the same principle we just pray in. We ask these guys, pray in that mentor, then they have to be willing to pursue. [00:37:56][14.9]Lowell Seashore: [00:37:57] I tell young men, to start groups. You know, it's all over the country on different campuses and Christian groups. It's like they go, How do I start a group? I say, Well, you start asking God to bring the right people to you. And He does, yeah, you know that God, He just keeps doing things. [00:38:12][15.6]Jeff Zaugg: [00:38:13] I love that. [00:38:14][0.5]Lowell Seashore: [00:38:14] I have it on a T-shirt, God, He does things. [00:38:16][2.1]Jeff Zaugg: [00:38:19] So true. Maybe we end here with you praying over the guys listening, over me and the guys listening, specifically around lies. I know David also mentioned to me that you taught him to combat combat lies in his head and replace them with truths. I just wonder if you could just say a prayer that would just be prayed after. I know you don't know the specifics. We don't know all the guys who are going to listen to this, but like just praying that those lies would be silenced in Jesus' name and that you'd pray that the truth would replace them. Can you pray like that for us? [00:38:49][30.5]Lowell Seashore: [00:38:50] Yeah. Can I preface? You know, it's like the truth sets us free. So what Neil Anderson taught me is not a power encounter, it's a truth encounter. So truth and lie statements is what I use the latter teach men to do. You don't like in the name of Jesus, I renounce the lie that and I accept the truth that and how to take every thought captive to in obedience, you know, like, no, I reject that thought in the name of Jesus kind of thing. So it's pretty simple. Yeah. So. Well, yeah. So Father Lord Jesus and Holy Spirit, I just ask that You will send your spirit into the hearts of all the men listening to this so that you will encourage them and nudge them and get them to deal with everything they need to deal with so that they can not only protect their family, but they could have a heart for you. We go against in the name of Jesus, I go against any evil spirits that are trying to not make that happen, are trying to bother people that are listening to this podcast that you could be bound and gagged to silence. And just thank you for your power and your, your love for us and the way you take care of us always. I ask that in the holy name of Jesus, my Savior. [00:40:20][90.2]Jeff Zaugg: [00:40:25] Thank you so much for joining us for Episode 246 with Lowell Seashore. The organization, Dangerous Men, the book, all of the resources to resource groups of young men who are going after it in this area of of walking in freedom, it's all available at dadAWESOME.org/246. dadAWESOME.org/246 is going to be all the resources here. Guys, thank you for listening. Thank you for pressing in to this topic of freedom. Man, when dads walk in freedom, what a gift to our kids and our grandkids. Man, passing on love and peace and life to our kids versus passing on pain. It is, it is work that is very much worth it, but it's hard work. So thank you for being courageous men. Let's be dangerous men. Let's be men who make a difference for our families, our workplaces, our neighborhoods, the world. And to do that with the walk in freedom. All right, guys, go have a great week with your kids. Thank you for being dadAWESOME.