307 | Failing Forward, Raising Powerful Kids, and Breaking Up with Passivity (Ben Serpell)
Episode Description
As a husband and father, Ben Serpell has been tempted by passivity plenty of times. It was only after confronting certain fears that he was able to begin living with full power. In this episode, he shares practical examples of how to set a high standard of love in your home. Plus, you’ll learn why “winning vs losing” is the wrong mindset and how a learner’s approach will help you extract more wisdom from your parenting journey.
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Ben Serpell moved from Australia to America at the age of 18 and married his wife, Brittney, one year later. They have been married for two decades and have three children. Ben and Brittney both serve on the leadership team at Loving On Purpose, where they provide marriage and family coaching through conferences, online workshops, and more.
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· When you shift from a “winning vs losing” mindset to “winning vs learning,” you can continue to grow without having to start from the beginning.
· Your job as a parent is not to rescue your children from hardship but to sit with them as they learn necessary lessons.
· As a man, you should be setting the standard of love in your home through sacrifice.
· Passivity is birthed from fear of failure and fear of rejection.
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Podcast Intro: [00:00:01] Being a great father takes a massive amount of courage. Instead of being an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a decent leader. The oldest dad in the world gave you this assignment, which means you must be ready for it. As a dad, I get on my knees and I fight for my kids. Let us be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. I want encounters with God where He teaches me what to do with my kids. I know I'm going to be an awesome dad because I'm gonna give it my all.
Ben Serpell: [00:00:39] Men should be setting the standard for love in the home. You know, when Jesus talks about leadership, He says that the greatest among you is the one who serves. I'm laying down what's most important to me to communicate that I'm crazy about those people in my home. You're worth the sacrifice.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:00:55] Gentlemen, welcome back to DadAwesome. Today, Episode 307, really excited about our guest this week. I'll introduce him in a moment, but I want to quickly spotlight, I want to shine the DadAwesome spotlight on two resources, and the first we've never had a DadAwesome store before but dadawesome.org/store. We now have DadAwesome T-shirts and tank tops and coffee mugs and hats and you can buy gift cards and jackets. So these are DadAwesome branded, we have a new logo with, this year, new website. This is a chance for you to wear our, wear our gear but also a subtle way for you to encourage others around the mission of DadAwesome. So, if you're looking for your your kids or your wife's looking for Christmas gift ideas for you, pass them along, DadAwesome store. If you make a decision within the weeks you've got until this next Tuesday, at midnight, if you make a decision soon you can use the Christmas code, dachristmas, to save 10% on your order. Would love to encourage you guys, that is a way to support the Ministry of DadAwesome by purchasing items from the DadAwesome store. So, you're invited for that. The second invitation this week is around episode 305. So two weeks ago, two weeks ago on the podcast, Thanksgiving Day was a vision, mission, look what God has done in the nearly six years of this ministry and look where we're headed. What's the next chapter? We're calling it the Anchoring season. And we'd love to invite you guys to to check out that episode and watch, if possible, watch that episode because it's got a lot of visuals around where are we going as a ministry. So we'd love to encourage you guys, especially as we think about end of year, end of year donations, end of year giving, inviting you to know more about our mission so you could prayerfully consider making a donation to support and fuel the mission of DadAwesome. So okay, those are the two invitations, the DadAwesome store and watching or listening to episode 305, look what God has done, this episode celebrating the impact. Okay, today though, Ben Serpell is joining us today. He is on the team at Loving On Purpose. We featured his father in law, Danny Silk, back about a year ago. Ben brings so many practical ways, man, This conversation is laced with practical dad wisdom on so many topics. His wife, she just wrote a book called Imperfect Parenting, and we take some topics out of that book. But mostly it's just like this is just pouring out of Ben, Intentionality, man, he sees men, as like, we can really step in with our whole hearts and we can step in with power to serve our family. So, here we go, let's dive right in, this is episode 307 with Ben Serpell. Instead of thinking, winning or losing, Ben, I loved your take on winning or learning. I don't know if this was just you or the team kind of came up with this framework, but would you kind of unpack what you mean by winning or learning as a, as a mindset?
Ben Serpell: [00:03:56] Yeah, I think, you know, so if if you slice us anywhere, we'll probably talk about relationships and we're probably talking about all the dynamics that happening in relationships. So this this actually happened in a conversation with my father in law. So I'll be honest here. Like most things I'll say today, it's stolen.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:16] Danny Silk. Represent. Yes.
Ben Serpell: [00:04:18] Danny Silk. Here we go. That's that's the man that's taught me many, many things you'll hear today from my my voice. But I, we're having some conversation about something and he said this for race and I caught it and thought, that's that's how we say it. That's it right there is, because if it's either winning or losing, then someone's losing and someone's winning. If you talk about an argument, if you talk about connection, if you talk about you and your kids and even you and yourself, which is especially the biggest one where we need to start, especially as dads. If I'm losing today, then I have to start over. If I'm learning then this is stuff I can use for tomorrow's victory. So, I think just that simple reframe is really, really helpful.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:05:03] Yes. And the posture for me, I was just thinking about some recent challenges, as a leaderl, and I feel like I beat myself up. My voice kind of beats myself up for I lost. These are areas of I lost here, I lost here, I lost here because it just didn't meet my expectations. And with that simple reframe, I've actually gained in all three of those areas. Am I correct?
Ben Serpell: [00:05:27] Absolutely. Yeah. You know, it's the the old saying where we're falling forward, you know. [00:05:32][5.8]
Jeff Zaugg: [00:05:33] Yeah.
Ben Serpell: [00:05:34] I was thinking this morning and I I'll, I'll put this in here and see how it fits, but I was just thinking this morning, actually, about the woman who was caught in adultery, right. That a woman, they were both caught, but she was one who was drug before Jesus. The thing I was thinking about, which fits right here is, you know, she shows up waiting to find out that she's a loser. She lost and she's worthy of something and Jesus says, Hey, there's something to learn here, let me show you a different way to view this. Because I think what happens, especially in failure, especially when we, when we drop the ball, we have a bad day, we did a thing we said we weren't going to do, how we view that I think is so important. We need to find a problem. We need to actually have true repentance. We need to let people into it. But how we view it, I think is so important. If it's just if it's if it's a viewpoint connected to shame, then we get stuck in the cycle.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:06:28] And as a dad, we're not just helping our kids with this framework of winning or learning, but actually we can learn from all those interactions as well. We can stay in that posture of teachability. Do you have any, any stories like that or anything recent that you've learned from moments with your kids, that you're like, That was for me, I had to take away?
Ben Serpell: [00:06:47] Yeah. I mean, probably the most recent one, I'll start here, I'm sure there's more stories. We sent my oldest one off to school ministry in Redding, California, where I went 21 years ago. Which she keeps telling people, my dad came here 21 years ago. So as we dropped her off, we actually prayed and we had this moment where I felt like I supposed to release or send her almost like this kind of apostolic family thing. And we prayed for her. I have two other children. We all gather around, prayed, and then we left. And as we were driving away, I looked at my wife and I said, I can I can feel regret trying to break in. Of all the moments that I didn't, that I missed, that I could have, that I should have, you know, just all these things trying to break in and say, you were almost good enough. And so I said that to my wife, and it was like this this agreement we made together, that doesn't get the break in. Because there's absolutely things that I could've done better. There's absolutely ways that I could have grown and done it differently and be more engaged or, you know, you name it. But the just just this piece right here, it was the the the moment for me to go, okay, I'm going to learn something. I got two more kids. Because if I live in regret, I'm probably going to disengage and miss the next opportunity.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:08:03] Yeah. So, Ben, some of those little whispers which really were were routing for, their headed for turning into shame or guilt or regret, you're able to convert those or we have the ability and the choice, as dads, to convert those to learnings, to apply to the next child or even that current child in the next phase, right. We have all these, can you think of a few of those or maybe maybe 1 or 2 of those learnings that you already are starting to think, Okay, since that drop off moment, I'm going to start to implement this in my other two kids?
Ben Serpell: [00:08:38] Yeah, I think you know that the dynamics change. Any any parents out there, we're just learning this now, we're just learning ourselves. But any parents who have sent a child off and you have kids in the home still, the dynamic shifts completely. There's a whole new, it's the same culture, we've we've worked really hard on our culture, but the dynamic, the relational dynamic has shifted because we're removed this really important component. And and I think just the just noticing that it just almost required this new level of intentionality from me like, okay, it's a different equation now. Because I've removed a different, I've removed this component. She's still engaged, obviously, we're really connected with her, but she's not in the home. So just just the desire to be a little more engaged, a little more focused on these two so that it didn't feel like it's just life is normal. No, it's, we are adjusting to the season. Which is probably the title of a parenting book, it should be, Adjusting to the New Season. That's what we do, right? We just adjust.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:09:39] Always. Always. And speaking of the next parenting book, what are, so adjusting to next season, just the constant like let's, let's focus in, let's adjust, let's be ready for what's in front of us, what are we what are we gifted with in this chapter. Just as a shout out, your wife wrote this amazing book, Imperfect Parenting, which will be linked in our our conversation notes on all the platforms and we want to highly recommend. We'll probably actually come into some of those themes as well. But when you said family culture, a second ago, I know this is a big deal because your father in law gave you guys some specific like affirmation, when I interviewed him about a year ago. He just like talked about your family culture and he's just shined a spotlight and said, I want like, that is impressive to me. Could you talk a little bit about maybe what your friends, your neighbors, your your in-laws, what what do they see when they look into or if I had a chance to visit and kind of spend a weekend with you guys, what are some things that I might notice about your family culture?
Ben Serpell: [00:10:37] Yeah, it's a great question. I think I'd ask that question differently, so I was ready to answer and realized no, we're going a different direction. I think what you see is a couple of things. We, we prioritize relationship. Which looks like we clean up messes quickly.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:10:54] Can you tell me about that?
Ben Serpell: [00:10:56] When the kids come to us and there's a problem, which happens every hour probably for parents, there's some problem, the kids are in a fight. The kids, you know, something's gone wrong or someone's hurt. You know, our first instinct, in our culture, with all of us at this point is, have you talked to your sibling? Or have you clean your mess up? Or have you told them that there's a mess to clean up? So once you've done that, then come find me. I'm happy to help. I'm happy I get involved. But this is, this is actually your relationship. And so this is all the way around with parents, with kids, with siblings. I I think you'll see us looking for moments to enjoy each other and protecting that. You know, so just last night, we were, it's bedtime and my wife's tired and my kids, they're 14 and 11 and they're just bouncing around the room and it's just wild and crazy and they're just having fun. And they had those little moments where they're like, almost wrestling and then they're mad for a second and they pop out of it, you know. They're just in this funny little and we keep saying, Hey, it's bedtime and they're like, okay. And they just goof off again. But the funny thing for us is, you know, it was lightened and whatever. We finally said, Hey, guys, I love you. It is bedtime. I'm starting to feel hassled. This is all the parenting tools. It's all in the book. But we finally drew a line and said, okay, we're having fun here, but the thing that stood out to us is they're just enjoying each other so much around us. And that's the piece that that we have worked so hard on, is this is what it's meant to be. We're meant to actually enjoy each other. There's hard days. There's there's attitudes. There's all those things. But it's so much more quieter than it used to be because we have worked hard on protecting the main thing.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:12:45] Yeah. Another thing that I know is true about your family culture because one of your daughters said this on your podcast, which was fun in my research, to actually watch your daughters talk is the ability to bring anything to mom and dad, just bring anything. And so that that rose to the top in my notes of I want that for my girls just to know it's a safe. It is, I am totally safe and I'm welcome to come. Would you explain a little more why that's such a big deal?
Ben Serpell: [00:13:11] Yeah, I think this doesn't happen because we don't know how to handle mess. I'm, I'm so scared to be hurt by you. I mean, this is marriage. This is leadership. This is parenting. Is I'm so scared that your mistake is going to cause me pain. And when it does, I like that there's a reaction because I'm scared. And people don't normally call that scared. They call that mad and angry because I'm I'm trying to fix your problem for you. But really what it is, is I'm so scared, so there's this facade going on the outside. So the first thing to do is actually get that thing under control. Or say it differently, self-control.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:13:53] Yeah.
Ben Serpell: [00:13:55] Right. t's gain some self-control over yourself. It doesn't mean there's not boundaries. It doesn't mean that there's not consequences. That your mess actually has real consequences relationally for you. You know, like, hey, there's some learning coming your way. You didn't win today. You're learning today. But how I, how I react to that is, is going to actually create the culture we live in. So we have, we have practiced this and really it's because we experienced this, Brittney and I. I can tell you lots of stories where we came to her parents and went, Hey, we pooped our pants again. We need some help. Well, I can smell it, but it's okay, I've been there. Here's what we do. And we're like, Oh, my gosh, you're not freaking out. And so just experiencing that culture teaches you how to give it away. If you haven't experienced it then you get to be the first one to actually change the cycle.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:14:49] The the parallels of what you're sharing about safety and come to me and you can bring this mess and the role of the Holy Spirit. I know this is a passion of yours, but that the Holy Spirit is not, it's like we don't is not really the rescuer but the comforter. Am I, did I that right?
Ben Serpell: [00:15:09] Yeah.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:15:10] Yeah. Take us into that a little further, Ben.
Ben Serpell: [00:15:12] Yeah. Jesus, Jesus said it's good that I go because I'm going to send you the, the comforter. He didn't say, I'm going to send you to one of these guys to take away all your problems, and life's going to be really peachy and easy. He said, I'm going to send you the comforter, which means, but we're going to need some comfort. I think, you know, my my job as a parent and lots of us do this because it's it is so hard to watch your child struggle. Oh, it's so hard. But, I think what we do if we're not managing our own insecurity on the inside is we try and rescue our kids from that trouble and then we take away again, Well, we're back to the learning. We take away the learning. I think this what the Holy Spirit does is He'll come sit with us and go, Oh, that looks heavy. Wow. What do you think happened? What do you need from me? How can I help? I have a whole slew of resources back here. It's just waiting for you. And it probably starts with peace. Let's get some joy back. Let's get some truth in there. And let's begin to walk together. But I'm going to sit with you and I'm fine if you feel it. I can handle you sitting in your mess for a minute, and I'm going to bring comfort to that person rather than rescue that person.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:16:28] Yeah. The visual, every time you talk about a mess, than the last five minutes we're talking about bringing your mess and making a mess. I'm coming off of like four days of stomach bug, a stomach bug being in our family with all four of my little girls and the the tangible parents cleaning up the mess, right. And the work that's required. But but yet in that instance, it's like second nature. Of course that's what Dad does. Of course I'm here to serve and love and not judge because it's, you can't help this, but yet it's amazing when emotions start to move in that direction of a mess or decision making, how the impatience flares up. The the thinking about myself and I've heard you challenge men in this area of like, like man up. And part of that is you're someone who gives versus focuses on what you get. That might not be exactly the phrasing that you use, but but could you, yeah, challenge me and challenge all of us dads around sacrificial love?
Ben Serpell: [00:17:32] Yeah. Yeah. That's I mean, I mean that's what I is going to use is, is we're meant to be setting the standard for love, in our home, through sacrifice. This is the model Jesus gave us. I think Bill Johnson who said it best, which is the statement I just said, that men should be setting the standard for love in the home. And, you know, when Jesus talks about leadership, He says that the greatest among you is the one who serves. Which tells me that that I should be smelling some flesh burning around me. Meaning I'm laying down what's most important to me to communicate that I'm crazy about these people in my home. That you're, you're worth the sacrifice. You know, it's it's the, I think every dad has experienced this, hopefully, but it's the two in the morning, child's crying, it's the Oh my gosh, you going to that thing again? You brought home that same paper again with the same grade. You know, what am I going to do to actually provide for the need you have thar has nothing to do with me? I'm actually getting nothing from you. And this has everything to do with me providing something for you, which means I have to make sure my source is flowing from the Lord. Because if that thing turns off, then I'll be looking for a source somewhere. And what happens for men is often, if you're married, that becomes your wife, which is a whole other conversation. But I, I, I think that piece right there is I'm, I'm looking to set the standard because my kids, and I think Seth Dahl says this, he probably said on your podcast too. Love that man deeply. But he he says something like, we are the theology of God. We're teaching our kids about God, the Father, they're learning from who we are, especially as dads. So just that awareness that's not supposed to scare you. It's supposed to encourage you that there's something inside of you that that you have available to you to step up to the plate and go, kids, watch me.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:19:39] Yeah, there's something about, like, being powerful and choosing to use our power to serve. I know you celebrate this about specifically, you celebrated this about your daughters, but I know you celebrate this about your son being powerful, as well. But raising young, powerful women. I have to model, what does it look like to be powerful, which is choosing to serve. And yeah, I'd love to hear a little more your thoughts on, I want to go back into actually the upstream and how to stay full in a moment. But let's just step aside for a second and talk about powerful young women and what you mean by that?
Ben Serpell: [00:20:16] Yeah. Again, you're full of great questions, today. I love this. I, I think, I think a powerful young woman really is probably connected to their confidence. And that probably starts with what is my dad believe about me? How does my dad see me? How does he see my best day and my worst day? You know, just this week we were talking my oldest daughter and she found herself in a bit of a mess. And she said this phrase, she said, I just want to be around you guys. I'm not crying, but I can feel it, it's right there. It's right here. But she just said I just and she's just in a different city. It's like I just want to be around you guys when I find myself stuck and having a hard time. I want to be with you. Which, which again, tells me that she has felt safe and she felt championed. She she believes with love her on her best day and her worst day. And, you know, so there's just these opportunities, constantly, every single day to to to speak into my girl and say, hey, what do I think about you? Who are you? How does God see you? Who is my princess? Like, there's just this opportunity to continually pour into the identity, the security. And if if I'm wavering that as a dad that actually flows into my family. And that's not theory, I've watched this happening in my own life and I've talked to so many men about this. That when I'm wavering, it actually wobbles the family.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:21:56] Yeah, I've seen in the last two weeks some of that of myself wavering in how it does, it ripples down. I've used the visual, maybe you even brought this up a second ago, like a reservoir. And you can see the water, the low, the high mark where the water should be or where it was, but the water's well below that. And then you think of like the waterfall and the beauty of a waterfall. If the reservoir is low, the waterfall is hardly trickling, right. Versus the the roaring waterfall that comes from a full reservoir that's just bursting. What are the things for you, Ben, when you think of the upstream Sonship, you know God's love for you being poured in, maybe, maybe it's brotherhood, maybe it's mentors, maybe it's your marriage, your wife. What are, can you pinpoint a few of the key upstream so that you can be full and bring your full heart to your kids?
Ben Serpell: [00:22:42] Yeah, Yeah. I think there's a couple of things there. One is definitely having men that that I'm I'm looking for a yes. What I mean by that is I'm I'm looking for a man that'll say yes to me, so then I can go challenge his yes. These two men for me, you've had on the podcast, it's Danny Silk and Banning Liebscher, both have been, have played different roles in my life and for 20 years. But there's different points where I get stuck, I'll be having a hard time, I need help. And what I learn is I have to go challenge their yes, because they already gave me access to it. But I start to believe, like, you know, a month would go by, we wouldn't talk and this voice would go, they forgot your name. They don't care about you anymore. They don't have time for you. And I would squeak out a text, hey, you got five minutes? Yeah, of course. Let's do it this afternoon. Are you serious? I spent a month of my life in agony.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:23:38] You had the courage.
Ben Serpell: [00:23:39] Yeah. So, you know, that's, that's such an important piece. And I think so much of my breakthrough is connected to letting fathers in. I think, I'm not sure if Danny talked about this so I'll do it quick, very quickly and let let him be the one to really build it. But next year there's a book coming out called The Dragon Slayers or The Way of Aggression. And this is about a four year journey we've been on where he invited me to a group he started. To the 12 men that have gathered around Danny that he said, This is my band of brothers. And then the next stage is, I've now gathered 12 men around me and said, Hey, this is where we're going. Seth, one of my guys, Seth now has 12 guys. And so six rungs out, you're almost, I think it's 4 million men in an intentional relationship. The reason I bring that up is I've realized in my life that it's actually a non-negotiable now. It's a non-negotiable to have men in my life that can peer in and go, Dude, you're doing a great job. Hey, what's that smell? You smell that? I think it's you, Ben? But there's men in my life that that gets to peer in and be part of my journey that I'm I'm on this thing with. You know, there's there's so many resources about this, Stephen Mansfield has some of the best writing to this I think. We just told you story about bands of brothers that like can not let each other fall, fall on that line you're describing. You know, like, Hey, I'm going to fly to your holiday house, where you're hiding from your wife, come knock down the door and remind you who you are. Get off your butt. Come on, dude. Let's go.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:25:16] Wow.
Ben Serpell: [00:25:18] And then, and then I think even even marriage, you know, my wife and I talk all the time and she she wouldn't be my source, obviously, but when that connection is weak, it actually influences the culture of the home. You know, we have to talk about how marriage is what creates the culture in your home. The culture of marriage creates a culture of your family. So I think that's one of the things, too, is if if that's off and that's part of the band of brothers, part of the fathers is there's people even asking me, how are you and your wife doing? How's your time by yourself? Your know, how's, how's the voice of the Lord in your life? Is that that flowing or is it getting quiet? How's your believer? You know, so.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:26:07] That's I mean, so practical what you're sharing, but I know some of and we're going, we'll circle back with that book release is. Dragon Slayers, right.
Ben Serpell: [00:26:16] He's still working on the title a bit.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:26:18] Okay. Well, we won't get too serious about it yet then, but the the concept of we don't have to wait till, you know, it's a band you or someone else says, Hey, come be a part of my dozen. We we actually can create this. What are some of the stepping stones to pull guys in? Maybe doesn't start with a dozen, it starts with four. But to have that kind of deeper brotherhood, it's been a topic that keeps coming up on this podcast, the need. But there's a lot of guys who have not taken the initiative to say, I'm going to make this happen. I'm not going to be passive in this area. I'm going to make it happen. I'm going to build it. What are some of the words of wisdom for those guys who are going to be builders?
Ben Serpell: [00:26:54] Yeah, you know what I found when I started building mine and these are guys I've known that, my goup's actually scattered throughout the country. So we meet on Zoom and then then we try to meet up for different trips. So I've done, there will be trip in a Wyoming this year. We'll get back together this year, we'll try to do more. I've done a few in Alaska with Denny and his group in North Dakota. So this is these these moments where we experience something together. But when I started bringing my group in, almost all of them said something to the effect of, I've been praying for something like this. I've needed something like this. And so I think every man listening is going, Yeah, me too. What does it look like to actually build covenant relationships with men? I had this conversation recently with my group and it almost felt like it it create a bit of a scary ripple in the group of like, dude, because I told the guys, this group right here, I'm committed to you for the rest of my life. That's a scary thing to say. You know, it sounds really good and biblical and nice. It's a scary thing to say. I'm going to hang on to you through your thickest and your thinnest and your hardest and you're all that, dude, I'm I'm committed to you. So you could be the biggest goofball and make the worst decisions, I'm hanging on. And I think this just isn't what we do.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:28:24] It, Ben, it feels like you're describing the opposite of someone who is passive. I want to talk about the theme of passivity. Like you're talking about covenant, lifelong devotion. I'm for you. No matter if this or that or the other thing changes or you start to annoy me with your decision making, I'm for you. But I just I have not heard in that that kind of I'm, I'm here for you till the end is it's so rare. It's it's unheard of right now in our culture in that was modeled for you by, you mentioned earlier, going after a spiritual father. Someone who who can and we don't have to over spiritualized this but just someone who you really pursue and go beyond the yes to asking them to actually take. So there's a there's a there's a connection here I think between mentorship upstream and then being able to impart this to guys that we go after. Would you go into passivity and how it plagues men and dads right now?
Ben Serpell: [00:29:28] Yeah I, I think it's one of the probably one of the biggest sicknesses in men today. You know, it's just it's such a such a problem. And it's it's one of my things that it sits right next to my head whispering all the time. Just inviting me back into it. It's just asking to be friends again. Because I, I broke up with passivity a long time ago. It just, it just wants to be friends again. And I'm like, you need to go away because it's trying, it's getting quieter. It's getting further away. But I can still hear it because I think this invitation, the way I like to talk about it, is it's actually self-protection. Passivity is really just a form of self-protection. And it's, it's birthed from fear. And I, with with some level of confidence, I have dwindled this down to probably two things that I like to tell men. Some men have challenged me on it, and I'll come back and say, Actually, the more I thought about it, I think you're right. And it's the fear of failure and the fear of rejection that that as men, we are just so frozen. And it's often not even being rejected or failing, it's just the fear of that. Yeah, it's the fear of that potentially maybe possibly happening that I just stop because I cannot imagine having to experience that again. And then we have all these wives walking around going, Where's my husband? Where'd you go? Like, well, I'm over here just trying to stay alive in my little, little corner, hoping I'll, I'll see tomorrow. And and it's it's so hard to give sacrifice and, you know, with brothers, with family, in marriage, it's so hard to do any of that when I'm in a self-protection mode. There's no protecting someone else when I'm too busy protecting myself.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:31:21] Yes. And sometimes I think the passivity ties with I just I'm having a hard time pinpointing what I need. Like, I like even articulating, like, what is it that I need in this season? I know I don't want rejection. I know I don't want to fail, right. Like those things you mentioned. But how would you encourage, start with me then, like of really figuring out and taking a deeper look at what is it I need so that I can bring my whole heart to my family?
Ben Serpell: [00:31:52] Yeah. You know, I, you were saying something earlier and I was just just thinking about, I think one of the one of the overall things that we as men need and I'm talking to you and just men in general and myself probably, too, is, you know, we we want to experience someone believing in us. And then answering the question, you have what it takes. I met with a therapist a couple of years ago, dear friend of ours, and we were talking through some of this and we got to this point in the conversation where we said, I think it was you, I don't have what it takes or something like that. It was, it was essentially that. I don't have what it takes. She said, okay, well, that's been living in your subconscious, so I would like you to wake up every day and say, I don't have what it takes. And bring it to your conscious mind. I was like wait, you want me to say the lie? Okay. And it was kind of funny. And I started doing this. And I would start laughing about it. But it's, it's now in my mind, so I can now see where I'm choosing to live that out. And it's becoming conscious to me even more of like, oh, there it is. That's the thing that I was doing, even not aware of it. So I have what it takes that someone that believes in me, which is the band of brothers, it's it's an inviting wise men in my life. And then it's also just bringing to the surface, what is the lie that's keeping you there?
Jeff Zaugg: [00:33:22] Yeah, it's fascinating. It's usually you say the truth, right. But you're actually saying it's a positive to bring to the surface? Yeah.
Ben Serpell: [00:33:29] It can be. You know, I think everyone's different, but it was really helpful for me. Yeah.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:33:34] Yeah. So your wife, Brittney, writes this book, Imperfect Parenting. And I'm sure this is a many year, it's really, I mean, it's 21, your oldest is 20 or 21? I can't recall.
Ben Serpell: [00:33:45] She's 18.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:33:46] 18. Sorry. So you've got a lot of years leading up to writing a book on parenting. But was there anything that came to the surface that you're like, Oh, I would grab that and deposit it into Dad's? And I'm sure there's a lot, but any just top things you're like that would, from the book, be deposited? And then of course I'm going to recommend all of our dads go get the book anyways for the for them and their wife. But any, any top kind of nuggets from the book?
Ben Serpell: [00:34:10] Yeah. You know, I think the second to last chapter, my wife, actually, um walks through one of the hardest parenting seasons of our life with our oldest daughter. You know, so just really hard, hard season where she, she found herself in just just a world of trouble. And lots of it her own decision making. Some of it was happening to her and didn't how to get out of it. It started with her cutting herself and then just progressed from there. And she was, she was losing she was. And, I think there are two things right there, one is it was, it was the Holy Spirit, which wea already talked about a little bit, but learning to parent with the Holy Spirit. And I think the second thing is which which that the subtitle of the book, It's Imperfect Parenting: Connection Over Perfection. I think the you only have influence in proportion to how much connection you have. So parents want influence with their kids, absolutely. Because this is my child that I've been tasked to protect and love and raise and all these things. But the level of influence you have is is, it's connected to how much relationship you've built with this child. Because if they're confused or don't have the question answer, Do you love me? Do you care about me? Then they're in the self-protection thing. It doesn't matter how many, how much great, great advice you have, it's not going in. So I think prioritizing connection. And then parenting with the Holy Spirit. Yeah, the there's, there's lots of resources on that one phrase right there, prioritizing connection because it, it's, it's kind of what, what fuels everything we do. At the same time, it's one of the hardest things to do.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:36:04] Yeah, it's, it's why I continue to send our DadAwesome audience over to you. I mean, to both your podcasts, your ministry, all the courses you offer. So they're all going to be linked out to make sure, and your wife's book, of course. I was curious though, Ben, we've we've only hit about a quarter of the questions that I had drafted up ahead of time. So we'll have to have another conversation at some point, which I'll look forward to. Was there anything else top kind of just oozing out of you that I was hoping to share this with the DadAwesome community? Any any other just top things, 1 or 2 things?
Ben Serpell: [00:36:39] Yeah, I, I think the just just as we talk today about passivity a little bit, you know, if men are listening to you, they've probably confronted some of it because I'm sure it's it's a continual challenge on this podcast. I, I think at the same time my encouragement would be get some men around you to help you confront the fear and then find a truth. Because you, as as men and as fathers, you really are needed. And if that question isn't confirmed in your heart, go, go solve that thing that you really are needed. Because that's, I think, one of the ways we like to say this, in Nehemiah, he tells this whole story about the families. And he actually gathers the families up together and they they build their part of the wall, which we like to describe as kind of them building that culture in the kingdom. But but there's a unique call on every family. And if that's true, then that's a unique call on the father to help build this family. And if that's not fully worked out in me, then I'm, I'm comparing myself. I do feel like I'm losing. I'm having a hard time. So it's resources. It's it's men in my life and it's just pulling in the right ingredients to go, I'm needed. I have what it takes. And I'm going to pour into this family like they're the most important investment in my life.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:38:02] Thank you, Ben. Thanks for the encouragement. Thanks for your passion. It just, it comes, I mean, even through the Zoom line, we're not sitting in person, but I'm so grateful just to have experienced that you're you're on fire for helping dads, for helping families. And I've caught that fire today during this conversation. Would you say a short prayer over all of the dads listening?
Ben Serpell: [00:38:23] Yeah. Yeah. Jesus, we just thank you, Lord, for this, this ministry, this podcast. God that really is having an impact on on more men than we know God, that even men having conversations would actually begin to fuel a fire for for passionate fathers doing what they're call to do. But my my prayer today, Lord, is is that You, our Heavenly Father, the Absolute representation of what it means to be a dad, would would really become the the blueprint and the understanding through experience. God, that we would we would feel your love today at a level we have never experienced before. And from that place that our kids will begin to find out we are crazy about them on their best day, on that worst day, and that anything that that wars against the love of God and our homes would be chased away. So we just bless these fathers today in Jesus name. Amen.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:39:23] Guys, thank you so much for joining us this week for episode 307 of DadAwesome with Ben Serpell. The conversation notes, all the links, you're going to find them in your podcast player, but also if you hop to the website dadawesome.org/podcast, you'll see the link right there for this week's episode, Episode 307. The links to both of their podcast episodes, some of the parent coaching that they do, Ben's wife, the book Imperfect Parenting, and several other resources, along with kind of our top takeaways of the conversation. So make sure to hop in and check out the show notes and take a next step. Don't just listen this week. Let's let's be men of action. DadAwesome, it's part of our mission. Let's be activated to take action, not just to be thinkers and ponders. We don't just ponder and think about being intentional dads, we bring action. We bring our whole hearts. So that's my encouragement to you guys. dadwesome.org/podcast to get the show notes today. A reminder the DadAwesome store you have till Tuesday. So just till Tuesday at midnight if you want to get that special discount code, dachristmas, to get the discount code. And then lastly, episode 305, two weeks ago is our vision mission episode that really captures this is where we've been for nearly six years. This is where we're going for the next two years of this ministry. So we'd love to encourage you there. Guys, thank you for listening. Have an amazing week.
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· 4:33 - "If it's either winning or losing, then someone's losing and someone's winning. If you talk about an argument, if you talk about connection, if you talk about you and your kids and even you and yourself, which is the biggest one where we need to start, especially as dads. If I'm losing today, then I have to start over. If I'm learning then this is stuff I can use for tomorrow's victory."
· 15:33 - "It is hard to watch your child struggle. Oh, it's so hard. But, I think what we do if we're not managing our own insecurity on the inside is we try and rescue our kids from that trouble and then we take away again, well, we're back to the learning. We take away the learning. What the Holy Spirit does is He'll come sit with us and go, Oh, that looks heavy. Wow. What do you think happened? What do you need from me? How can I help? I have a whole slew of resources back here. It's just waiting for you. And it probably starts with peace. Let's get some joy back. Let's get some truth in there. And let's begin to walk together. But I'm going to sit with you and I'm fine if you feel it. I can handle you sitting in your mess for a minute, and I'm going to bring comfort to that person rather than rescue that person."
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