318 | Choosing Connection, Using Your Hands for Love, and Creating a Fatherhood Vision (Zack Blair)
Episode Description
For Zack Blair, walking in unconditional love is the foundation of joyful fatherhood. In this episode, he shares personal experiences and practical examples to show why connecting with your kids matters more than trying to be perfect. And ultimately, how it leads to a parenting approach grounded in thankfulness and love.
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Zack Blair is an author and the founding pastor of Hill City Church in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He and his wife, Lauren, have been married for 17 years, have three children, and are foster parents.
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· Walking in unconditional love is the source of joy and thankfulness.
· How can your children one day remember your heart if you are not intentional to connect with theirs?
· Use your hands to express love, not produce pain.
· You need other men in your corner—not just for you, but also for your kids.
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Podcast Intro: [00:00:01] Being a great father takes a massive amount of courage. Instead of being an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a decent leader. The oldest dad in the world gave you this assignment, which means you must be ready for it. As a dad, I get on my knees and I fight for my kids. Let us be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. I want encounters with God where He teaches me what to do with my kids. I know I'm going to be an awesome dad because I'm gonna give it my all.
Zack Blair: [00:00:39] There's always a moment in every man where we look back on our life with regret. That's an area that if we dig deep, we allow the Lord to heal, when we open up to the right people, that will change our family's trajectory forever.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:00:54] Welcome back to DadAwesome! Today, episode 318, I have Zack Blair joining me. And before I introduce him, I wanted to quick do an announcement, an invitation. Let's do a drumroll because this is kind of exciting. So this is me drum rolling in the background. We've talked about launching something like this for a long time, six years into DadAwesome, we've had amazing, like, guys tell us around the country, hey, I'm doing a, a small group around the curriculum from the podcast, and somebody else is like, hey, I'm using the life curriculum that you guys have, and I'm, I'm hosting a campfire group with my guys. And we've taken over 100 guys through, a simple four part framework, the, The Life framework that we created, but we decided is instead of offering another round of that or curriculum that for any small group, we're gonna do something special and a pilot opportunity for only 10 dads. So this is why it's drum roll is, there's only 10 spots available, and it's going to be this spring, starting on April 11th. So this is seven weeks from now. You get a little bit of time. But I want to encourage you guys, it's called The DadAwesome Accelerator Group. And potentially we'll offer this multiple times a year if this is helpful. But we we had a lot of prayerful planning has already gone into the DadAwesome Spring Accelerator Group. There's 10 slots available, and it's a six week cohort where we take everything we've learned from DadAwesome in six years, and we're going to pack it all into a six week experience where we say, let's get together over zoom for 90 minutes each week. Let's read some books together. Let's hold each other accountable. Let's create a, a game plan, an action plan around areas we want to grow and learn. We're going to experience growth in an accelerated way, as a small cohort of only 10 guys. And actually there's six parts to the DadAwesome Accelerator promise. I'm going to unpack those over the next six weeks. So if you keep listening to the podcast each week, I'll just share a little bit more about this experience. But if you're interested, you're like man, I'm at least curious about joining this first ever DadAwesome Accelerator, send us an email, email awesome @dadawesome.org and you're going to get a kick back email, an immediate response with a little bit of information about the DadAwesome Accelerator Group and the link to apply. So we're going to, invite you to prayerfully apply, and we will look through those applications, and we will invite 10 of you to join the first ever pilot launch of the DadAwesome Accelerator Group. So, email awesome@dadawesome.org for that. Let's jump to this week's conversation, Zack Blair wrote the book The Father Code. I was introduced to him by a mutual friend, Lisa Max, who her podcast is like one of the most ever listened to DadAwesome episodes, and she connected me with Zack. Love his book, love his family, love his deep heart for, man, I'm going to bring, I'm going to bring what I've learned in this journey, still going after it, and I'm going to encourage dad to be dad, to be connected fathers with some specific action steps. So here's my conversation, episode 318, with Zack Blair. So, you got the team of five kiddos at, age range, what's the youngest, what's the oldest?
Zack Blair: [00:04:19] Okay, youngest is 3 and the oldest is 13.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:23] Got the decade represented.
Zack Blair: [00:04:25] It's been crazy, but it's been awesome.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:27] Well, give us a crazy or awesome story. It's fun to kind of get a little peek into your family. So either crazy or awesome or a mix of the two, something that gives a snapshot of your family.
Zack Blair: [00:04:36] Okay, so we have, the three biological children, Noah, Nora, Judah. And this is quintessential firstborn, second born, third born. You know, the firstborn has, he has the order, the schedule, great at math. He's, you know, predictable, he's kind and, you know, very clean and he has a stuff together. The second born came out just the magic puffball, you know, there's just stains in the carpet everywhere because of her. And we and I love it there I love it. She's wonderful. So creative. Very quick witted. I tell the boys, do not get into words argument with our daughter because she's going to win. And then the youngest, Judah, youngest biological, we call him tough and tender because we'll punch you in the mouth and then pray for you right after. And, and we, Lauren and I, had been on the adoption journey for a long time, and I really had it in my heart to foster. And, it was interesting that the adoption journey was, was very, it was very difficult for us, candidly. And so, we got our first call right after we got approved, and, we brought in two little girls who were, half sisters. And, they have been absolutely fun and also extremely difficult. It's been, it's been the ride of our lives, you know what I mean. So, I'm just, I'm just enjoying every moment, though.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:05:55] Well, that it's interesting because when a dad says, man, this has been hard, and then quickly thereafter says, but man, I'm, I'm enjoying every moment. We know that that's not true, that every moment, but it's a posture. It feels like it's a more of a posture of I'm going to choose to be thankful, and I'm going to choose to look for the joy in the hard. Sometimes the hard, a day of hard and then a few days of delight. But sometimes it's it's a whole year of like, I haven't seen the bright spot. And I'd love to hear just a little more on that principle, which I know it's true about you. Like your, the way you carry yourself, the way you talk about being a dad, Zack, is, is like choosing joy, choosing a posture of thankfulness. Would you go into that, just why that's so important?
Zack Blair: [00:06:34] Yeah, yeah. I would say, I would say it's it's it's walking in unconditional love, that is the foundation of all of that for me, personally. You know, I had a mentor, a father figure in my life really teach me the principle, love people where they are, not where you want them to be. And, in and, man, I get, I get that tested with the foster girls because, you know, they they're they're older. I mean, you know, they're they're three and five, but but developmentally delayed because of their situation. And, one was, just not potty trained, well both of them were not potty trained when they came to us. And, you know, I'm holding them, holding one and she is having an accident, she can't make it to the bathroom. And I put her down on the ground, and, I'm like, wait a second. I would never do this with my biological children. And so I picked her up, and I just let her peel over me, honestly, you know, just just being being frank here because, she deserves unconditional love, too. And unconditional love changes, it, I've seen it change a brain, heal trauma, open up vocabulary, bring stability. And so we have to, we have to choose joy and we have to choose walking in love. And it's difficult. It's so difficult.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:07:52] And what slips out is conditional love. It slips out of all of us dads because we see something that we're, like, celebrating. And all of a sudden we gush more love because that's what we are hoping for. Or that's what makes us feel better in the short term, right. It slips out of me all the time, conditional love. And it was modeled for me. My dad modeled a strong, a strong, I'm going to bring a ton of love and praise and cheer when you succeed and accomplish. I think that generation is like it just was, there's a lot of cheerleading for like, if we make the right choices. What do we do to not like, that's the default, that slips out, conditional love. How would you encourage me to catch that and to to take another course of bringing more of that unconditional love?
Zack Blair: [00:08:38] Yeah. So encouraging you, my man, a guy that I look up to and, and, and, really appreciate your wisdom that I've, that I've been able to receive over this podcast. Hard to hard to say I can encourage you, man. And I really mean that. You're very, very, you know, what you're doing. You know, number one, it's it's receiving the unconditional love of the Father for me and understanding the when, when, when I understand how much unconditional love changes and how these these girls have never received unconditional love in their life, to my knowledge, you know. I don't want to give too much of their story away or assume too much, but this is what we've been told. Man, I remember holding one and she's screaming in the middle of the night, and she is just turning on every light and you think like, oh my goodness, these are bad behaviors, like, we have to correct the behavior. But we look down deeper than the behavior is the insecurity and how scared she would be to be in somebody else's house she's never known. And from all we can tell, she's been living in fear for a long time. And her brain is, you know, so she didn't she didn't even really speak and she's a little bit older. She didn't even really speak, she couldn't tell us her name. And so I'm holding her and looking her in the eyes, trying to at least, and I said, you're safe here. You're safe here. And I just said, look at me in the eyes, Daddy's going to keep you safe. Zack is going to keep you safe, you know. And she said, I'm safe? It was the first sentence she said to me and it was question. I'm safe? I said, yeah. And she says, okay. And then she just went and fell right asleep. She fell asleep for 13 hours that night. She hadn't slept. I mean, you know, the pains off of the up and down in the middle of the night, right. She was just, she just fell asleep for 13 hours. And then her vocabulary started to awake, awaken and she's been a different girl. Now, there are ups, ups and downs along the way, but understanding and seeing the tangible life change that that unconditional love. I have to continue to go back to that and understand there's that there's various levels of that. So when the behavior is and when like last night, I mean, man, it was a really tough night. You know, they're going back to their home and coming back to us and they're all over the place. But then when they come back to us, they're extremely defiant and will, you know, try to take the emotional gauge of the whole room to a completely different place than where it should be. And, I don't want to operate in unconditional love at that time, you know. I want to, I want to withdraw and have them work for my approval. But I know that what that's done in my life and I'm not going to, I'm not going to let that happen. It's just a it's a commitment, you know.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:11:23] Yeah. Well, I want to jump to, my wedding ring. So I'm holding my wedding ring up, now, if you're watching on YouTube, you can see. And, the wedding, the wedding ring, like reminder, because it's always right here on my finger. But to show to your kids, I love how you use this as a tangible reminder of commitment. And there's a phrase of, I believe it's, I'll never leave you. Is that the one that the ties with wedding ring? Could you, yeah, can explain how you how you've lived it and invited dads to live into that? But also, why you use, you show your kids your wedding ring?
Zack Blair: [00:11:53] Yeah. So one of the first, so The Father Code is based off of six codes to become a more intentionally connected father. And, the first one is, you know, I'm never going to leave. Now, I understand people have various circumstances and difficulties within marriage and all of this, but that means that we're going to be present in our children's lives. We're going to be a voice in our children's lives. We're going to be there for them. And I assure my children, what does this mean? And they say, that means you never leave me. And I said, that's right, you know. And even our foster kids will say that, as well. They know that as well. And so there's an assurance that, comes when dad is loving mom, you know, a security that that comes whenever Mom and Dad are in love with each other. And I let them know how much I love their mom, and I'm not going to leave her, you know. This commitment, because when we were in youth ministry, we saw the kids whose, whose homes were more stable, who had a father in their house, or even a father figure who maybe a stepfather, or, even a foster dad in their home who was very stable. Those kids I saw, they they made it a lot further in life. And we could see the sense of statistics that when a dad leaves, there's a high propensity for violent crimes. There's a higher propensity toward incarceration. And there's a fatherless epidemic in our culture today. If I can inspire one man to stay and to be engaged with their kids, like, all this work is worth it, you know.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:13:22] And in that ties to, I've used this phrase, and I loved that you use the same phrase, this idea of what are we fighting? I want to see men and dads fight. And the best kind of fight, though not fight against your family, your kids, your wife, but like be the dad who fights to stay, that fights for their heart. Like, I've heard you say, in a couple different places when I was getting ready for this conversation. I just love that perspective of it's going to be hard. It's going to be a fight. It's not, you're not always going to feel like you're winning, but to fight, to stay. Explain a little bit more of why, like that, even that language or that strength that you kind of challenge men with.
Zack Blair: [00:13:57] Well, well, our marriage, our marriage ring is a covenant. It's a covenant reminder. You know, I've, I've officiated, well over probably it feels like 200 weddings in my life, you know, because that was a college pastor for a while, and people got married, and the youth pastor, when people got married. So I was at an abnormal amount of weddings that I've officiated. But it's a covenant reminder, every time you put that ring on, it's a covenant that I'm never going to leave you and I'm going to love you unconditionally, you know. And and man, it is easier to leave now than it's ever been. Even, even to disconnect, to cheat on our wives with work and to, to develop a whole different lifestyle outside of our family. We've got to fight for it. The temptations all around us, you know.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:14:37] Yep, yep. The invitations for other things, lesser, of lesser value. But in the short term, like the the drift is to head that direction, not to fight for the hearts of our kids. And I, I actually there's a quote that, you kind of laid up as a challenge, in the area of connection. I know connection is just so, like, you kind of come back over and over to, like, this is what I can be sure of right now in this, in this fatherhood chapter, because there's a lot of things that I can't, as my oldest is ten. There's a lot of things I can't be sure of is like, this is the blueprint to be a great dad, but connection. Yeah, I know you've landed on it and I can land up with you. This is a sure thing, you said, how can your children one day remember your heart if you are not intentional to connect with theirs? I love just like, okay, cause we want, I want my girls to, like, think back and to know my heart, my heart was for them. My heart with like what really mattered to dad, I want them to be sure that. But you're saying it's really a simple imitation. I need to be intentional to connect with their hearts today. I love it, would you kind of expound on that a little bit?
Zack Blair: [00:15:39] Yeah. You know, I even look at it with our with our staff team. It's it's, you know, talk to them about things that don't matter, so when you have to talk to them about things that do matter, they can actually hear you. And, you know, I think that the intensity, especially if you have a little bit more of a perfectionistic personality, which I can lean into in and when I'm, when I'm unhealthy, it is to correct and it's to drive and it's to make sure everything's in order and move forward. And, you know, we we care about things a lot of times and correcting things that don't matter in the long run. It's like they're going to know their ABCs. They're not going to say MNOP, you know, by the time they graduate high school, you know, so so it's it's fighting to see the things that they love. You know, I do a lot of marriage counseling as well for people and I realize when couples have a very, when they're having a difficult time, a lot of times they've, they've, they've forgotten why they fell in love in the first place, you know. And so we have to be intentional to, to know our children's heart and to know our spouse's heart, and to know our children's heart. And to know what what wakes them, what excites them and and come behind them to to help and be the very best version that they can be of themselves.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:16:52] And I could share a lot of fail stories when I chose to go short term, try to change a situation versus connect and keep a connection with my my daughters hearts. But I'll I'll share just for the, I think it'll help us go deeper into this, one success story. So I had one, and I don't think I've shared this yet on DadAwesome. But just like a week ago, my wife and I, we knew our our daughter was not telling the truth, that there was a an area that she wasn't telling the truth, that there was a lie. And we we we sat with her, we talked about. And you could just see her, like, closing up and closing down and shutting down. And it really felt like this is an easy, like we know it happened, we want to, I felt drawn to give a consequence in that moment of not telling the truth, but instead we chose in this moment, connection. You know, we're not, we're not seeking for perfection that our girls, every single time, their whole childhood, always tell the truth because we know that's not going to ever be possible, perfection. So we chose connection. And we said just I emphasized how much I love her and how much I know that when when she's ready to come and tell me what really happened, I know God's going to, God's going to shine light, and you're going to, you're going to when time is right. And it was amazing to not choose punishments in that moment or discipline, but instead choose connection. It led to a beautiful rounds of conversations later in her just desiring that big hug, because she knew that in the moment of, she was hiding something, she still got the connection with her father like it didn't to actually bring separation. I desired to be close to her. I'd love to hear from you, in that kind of story, or maybe it's another story you have as an example. How do we choose the like, I still want to train up my girls to tell the truth, but I also like see this such an importance to like, not put walls up. How would you kind of coach me in that, in that kind of moment?
Zack Blair: [00:18:42] Yeah, yeah, it's one of my, one of my mentors, a quick story from him. His daughter was older and, you know, she was probably about 17, 18 years old. And she had made a really bad mistake. She told this in her church, so it's totally fine for me to to share here. And, she made a really bad mistake. And, she knew that her dad found out about it, and she was about to go home, and and and she was, you know, nervous because she had to confront the reality, and she had to talk to her dad about it. When she got home, she saw her dad in the driveway, and he wasn't angry. He just had his arms open. And that's all I know of this man, by the way. I mean, just unconditional love. He's been my example of it, and I've annoyed him quite a bit in life, too. He's like a spiritual father to me, and he just shows me unconditional love like crazy. And, but he he just held his arms open and she got out of the car, you said you beat yourself up enough. He's like, come here and he gave her a big hug and he loved on her, and he just said, now don't do it again, you know. And that was an inspiration for me. That was a, that was a huge inspiration for me. Because our kids know when they're doing wrong. And, you know, if we really trust that the Lord is shining light in their heart, you know, they're, they've got that Holy Spirit is the best follow up with them. So we've actually taught our kids, if you tell me the truth, you're not, you're not going to get in trouble, if you come to me and talk to me about it. But if I find out otherwise, you know, if a principal or something comes and talks to me, and then that's, then you're going to get in trouble. But it's a get out of jail free pass if you come to me and talk to me about it.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:20:20] Yeah. I love that.
Zack Blair: [00:20:21] You know, we have to be careful.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:20:23] Yeah, the visual, though, of the father, you know, this mentor of yours, the father with his open arms. That's a powerful visual. And I know that there's something about, as a dad, our hands that I haven't really heard articulate the way you've expressed in your book and in some of your teaching about, that our hands, how do our kids think of us and think of our hands as dad? I know we could take this a bunch of directions, but could you just explain some of the facets to a father's hands?
Zack Blair: [00:20:51] Yeah. You know, one of the codes is, that we're going to use our hands to express love, not produce pain. And, shoot, you got me in the feels right here, man.. That one always gets me, because so many guys that I work with, I just, I love them, but their dads were so harsh, you know. And so when they see their father's hands, it's, you know, it's it's a reminder that their heart, of their heart. And I remember studying the parable, I call it the parable of the two sons, right. The, the ones returning home and like every detail, he's taking off his signet ring. He's he's using his hands to coat the son who was running away. You know, he he embraced his son with with his hands. And, you know, that's it's the value personally, that I have. My kids, when they see my hands, they're going to remember the time that I nurtured them. They will remember the time that I protected them. You know, they'll remember how strong they are. They'll remember them as having splinters. And because I'm a carpenter and, you know, they'll remember, having oil on my hands after we change together. But they'll remember my hands to be my my number one way to express love, in that connection with them, by embracing them appropriately. Every kid needs that.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:22:07] And I haven't really heard, like, the hands being, I hear about words, speaking blessings, speaking like using encouragement and words. But like I love this like encouragement to all of us dads to think about how our hands can be an expression of that love. I'm curious because every every daughter has a different age that like, I'm a little too old to hold my dad's hand when I'm out on a walk or different places. Your daughter, who you guys just went on this adventure, not adventure. I mean, it was adventurous, but you guys went on a mission trip together. Does she still hold your hands when you're walking, like, through a subway or different places?
Zack Blair: [00:22:40] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I tell her she can sit on my lap until she's 40. And I'll say, I don't know if that's weird, but...
Jeff Zaugg: [00:22:46] Yeah, the closeness...
Zack Blair: [00:22:47] You get my heart, girl.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:22:48] Yeah. So I kind of have already teed up the story, but, would you share a little bit about why you took your daughter on this trip? I think you guys just got back, like, a week or two ago, and, and just a little bit about the trip.
Zack Blair: [00:22:59] Yeah. So we, we we took, I take my kids on mission trips, just right around the age of 10, 11 years old. Right when they start to realize, like, you know, how expensive the world is, but they think that we could buy everything. I tell them, I teach them how the world really has to live. And so I took my oldest to Peru whenever he was 9. The pandemic shut down a lot of travel and so it was a little delayed with my 11 year old now. But I took her to, it was right, took her to, to Asia. And we worked with some people who, are in the most difficult circumstances in the world who, who, do what I do. And I look up to these people so much. Amazingly, my my wife's, my wife's family were missionaries in Japan. And this man comes up to me, and, he's an English man. You know, you can tell obviously, by, the way he spoke. And so, I, I introduced myself and I asked where he lived. He said he lived in Japan. I didn't think about it. My daughter is, that in the same night ask to pray over the same man, it was kind of interesting. You know, they wanted somebody under 30 praying for someone over 60. And so she prays for him, and I take a little picture of it. My wife says, Hey Zack, you know, my my family were missionaries over in Japan. So long story short, he was in their Bible study when he first got saved in 1981. His jaw dropped, his eyes opened. And, you know, it was just a beautiful moment for my daughter to see like, this is generational, you know, this this family call that we have is generational. It was those family members that prayed us to where we are today and laid the foundation for it. And so, my, my daughter got to see different cultures, but man, that, it's like 24, 26 hours of travel to get there. And, we were together, we played games and we enjoyed each other, and we were kind of grieving when we came back because we had so much fun together. But it was so beautiful to see her in a prayer line and have a beautiful woman from a persecuted area in India pray over her and really speak blessings of God over her. And I recorded and bawling my eyes out because my daughter's experiencing the presence of God and, it's the best, isn't it?
Jeff Zaugg: [00:25:14] And my, I mean, my guess and I think you shared a little bit about this before we hit record is that it's a it's a bit of a perspective shift or reset moment that will change her forever. When you take out of this context in Pittsburgh with her friends and her school, into a place like that for a week and a half, two weeks, like, is that the core reason this age and to take to a place like, was your son in Peru? Or was he at Asia as well that you took?
Zack Blair: [00:25:41] Yes, he was in Peru. .
Jeff Zaugg: [00:25:42] Yeah. So the core reason, though, is a shared experience with dad. I mean, the fun, the connection, but then specifically taking to these places and exposing to mission and church in different places is that perspective. Is that is that correct?
Zack Blair: [00:25:55] Correct. It changes everything for them. You know, it's ministry. Being a ministry kid is difficult, but it's not as difficult as it is in China, being a ministry kid, you know. And so that's that's about all I can say about that.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:26:08] Yeah. No we, Wow, wow. Jumping back to just another principle that I really appreciate your perspective on is sports, traveling sports and and how we as parents, there's no silver bullet here. There's no, like, perfect path. Every family is going to pray this one through. But my family, because we've traveled the last two and a half years in an RV, it hasn't really been part of the equation. We haven't done any sports or activities. And, so we're now kind of prayerfully entering the, waiting through what should we say yes to, what should we say no to. So coach me here. Why did you choose with conviction the path that you guys have chosen?
Zack Blair: [00:26:47] Man, have I, have I, did I write that in the book or was that on another podcast?
Jeff Zaugg: [00:26:50] No, I believe it was actually in your two part sermon series, around Father's Day. I think you talked about sports in there.
Zack Blair: [00:26:56] So I was like, man, I don't know. You did your research. That's, that's awesome. So I, I bribe my son. I showed him the rule of 72, and I brought my son did not get into, travel hockey. He's really good. But as I talk to people, I mean, realistically, if you're good, they're going to find you. And, a lot of times what I've seen is, you know, you asked it the normal travel hockey dad, hey, how is it? The first thing he mentions is, oh, man, my wife and I are separated every weekend and I can't keep up with my credit card bills. And so I was blessed, this guy actually shared that story with me because in front of my kids, so I could say, hey Noah, listen, it's going to cost us X amount of money a year to do this. How about this? I'll show you the rule of 72. Here's $1,000 a year in a mutual fund. And this is if we get this interest rate, this is what it's going to turn into, by the time you, you know, you're in high school. He's like, I'll take that dad, you know.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:27:52] That's amazing to use actually, a money in a clear like you're also teaching a principle about investment. And, man, see now and and even the rule of 72 and different interest rates and like understanding, I think that's fantastic. Also though the one sport or one art, I think you mentioned something about let's make sure we're cheering for each other versus everyone's going separate ways. Can you go a little further into kind of that hope?
Zack Blair: [00:28:16] Yeah, yeah, we want we want our kids to be there for each other. Like, you know, we say in our family, friends come and go, but families forever. And we realize that in our lives, like Lauren and I, my wife, we're lifers with people. Once we're friends, we're friends forever. However, there are different seasons that bring different friendships. So one thing that is constant, that we want to be constant in our family is our our, our kids will be best friends and they love each other and they're cheering each other on, they're cheering, they're supporting each other. And it can be boring for them and it could be, you know, a lot in one season. But we do limit our activities because we want to be engaged as a family, and we also want to raise our kids in church, so important to us. Now, what I see as a pastor is people will be traveling over the weekends, and they're not investing in their kids spiritually. If there's like a 2%, I mean, it's probably like a 0.07% chance that these kids are going to become professionals. And we think we're doing this because, like, they got a shot, they got a shot. I mean, let's look at the statistics here. But everybody has an eternity. And I want to invest in my kids eternity. So that's that's where we value and that's where we invest.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:29:23] Yeah. The quote that I picked up from, I believe it's from one of your mentors again, was around, hey, rob your sleep, rob your hobbies, but never rob your, your time with your kids. Did I get that right, or am I close?
Zack Blair: [00:29:37] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's right. It's about being both there and present. That's another one of the values that we lay out in The father Code. Not only am I not going to lead, but I'm going to be there and present and, you know, I'm not going to get swept away by my hobbies. And I might have to sleep a couple four hour nights here and there to get my work done, but to be engaged as a dad, because, you know, we all have to work. And in times like they are today, finances are not easy. And it's it's difficult, especially with five, you know. We have five kids. Our grocery bill went up here. I got to get a quarter cow. I got to get a half a pig. We're like all over the place. It was an excuse to get a nice Traeger griller, or a smoker that I could, I could take care of everybody with. But, you know, we've got to work side hustles and but we're going to have to do that at night, you know, because our kids, intentional connection is the most important thing for them. It matters in life who's around our table. And I want my kids to want to come back to my house. I want them to like, be in their 30s and say, man, I just want to go over Mom and Dad's house and have a game night, you know.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:30:40] Yeah. I want to draw a parallel that maybe, maybe you've done in the past, or maybe I'm just making this up on the fly. But the idea of our hands, againm as dads, and what's going to rob us like defending against robbery. Every dad would do that if someone broke into their house, they would defend, use their hands to stop that robber. I don't care if they take the TV. I'm going to defend my my most precious possessions, right. My my four little girls, my wife. Now, but when it comes to that second principle about our presence, like are we using our hands to defend against distractions and defend against things that take us away? At like so the thing that I hold and my phone tells me how many pickups I have, how many times I pick up my phone, it says it in the screen time. Like, I mean, guilty as charged. So I'm saying right now, I am guilty of using my hands to pick up that phone in so many moments that are not necessary when I'm in proximity to my little girls, and that is actually robbing of my presence, being fully there. So I don't know if if that resonates with you of like, that's a that's a problem area. Another area though could be that as we mentioned, our hobbies are other interests are things that distract us, get us out of the house away from, I mean, even ministry could be, if I'm connected in all these areas and serve, serve, serve, but I'm using my hands to help others instead of my little girls. So it kind of goes full circle all over the place. But yeah. What are your thoughts on the distraction side of technology, specifically?
Zack Blair: [00:32:03] Oh yeah. Yeah, we have to set up, my wife and I set up pretty strong boundaries on that, personally. We we hold each other accountable. I don't want my kids to look at me and think about me just with my head down. I'm convinced that people, our thumbs are going to be huge and our necks are going to be forward like this, you know, because we're just so distracted by it. Eye contact, appropriate eye contact is everything. You know, I actually grew up in, you know, coming from an abused background, I didn't know how to make eye contact with people. I didn't want to because it brought too much shame. I didn't know that. I thought that I was worthy of it. But every child needs appropriate eye contact, appropriate touch, appropriate discipline, and appropriate attention. And, we can not get distracted from being engaged fathers, you know. I don't, I don't want my kids to remember me in my phone. I want them to remember me locking eyes with them, you know.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:32:56] Zack, we only hit, like, kind of did a flyover of three of the, the kind of key principles from your book, and I, I'm just curious, were there a couple other areas when you think about DadAwesome and just like some things you've learned or like convictions that are deep in your heart that you're like, man, I want to share this. Any kind of top of mind, things we haven't touched on yet that you're like, this would be helpful for for us?
Zack Blair: [00:33:19] Yeah. You kind of, you kind of touched on it when you said, you know, imperfect and, you know, in a certain area, like, there's no such thing as a perfect father, right. We we could strive to be a good father, but what is a good father? What's our definition of it? And I think two things, number one, that we have to have a vision for our fatherhood, like we would leading an organization. Like we would, you know, building a treehouse. We have to have a vision for it. Because I see a lot of men stuck in their past, and they say, I'm not going to be the drunk dad. I'm not going to be the dad that was critical of his kids. And then what happens when you focus on not being, you end up being the very thing you didn't want to be. And so it's not enough to to not to not be, you've got to know where you're heading and, and set goals. And that was the purpose behind this. It's like, man, I'm going to be a connected father. That means I'm going to, I'm going to make eye contact with these kids. I'm going to be there and present. I'm going to value, I'm going to receive value from the Father, above my my value from my paycheck. But the second thing is, to be an example and repentance when not in, in everyday life. And, I can't tell you how many times I've apologized to my kids in the midst of my imperfections. You know, it's like I feel bad for the firstborn, right, because you ask them, they're like, they're the trial, you know. I remember they handed us the baby in the hospital, and I remember thinking like, this is it you actually trust us with with him now? Like, okay, let's go. And I feel so bad because like, early on, we we disciplined him way too harshly. And I apologize to him for it. I've been critical of him at times, and I apologize to him for it. And man, that apology, it goes so far with them to know, like, hey, dad's imperfect, but he's trying, and he's he's taking ownership in the areas that that he missed it. And I tell my kids, I want you, I'm not going to be a perfect father. I'm going to do some things great. You're going to look back and you're going to say, man, that wasn't so great. Whatever we did great, carry it on. But whatever we didn't do great, fix it and keep on getting better, you know.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:35:24] Yes, we we call it DadAwesome plus three. Like could you just be a dad who finds three other dads and grows together? It's just simple. It's not that you don't have to be a ministry leader and gather the dozens and dozens of dads. It's like, could you find three that would say yes to grabbing a cup of coffee and having a conversation and growing together? It's it's rare, though, like when I ask and I've gathered guys all over the country and I said, when was the last time someone invited you, invited you in to around this subject matter of dad life being an intentional father? And it's I mean, 99.7%, it's it's oh, no, you're the first one to invite me. As I come through with my RV and invite them. It's wild how few because I believe we all, as dads feel insecurities, inadequacy. I don't have what it takes to lead well, and I'm not a perfect dad, so I certainly can't lead others. Like throw that away. Throw it away. All you have to do is be an initiator, an inviter and say, I want to grow with you guys. So that's my heart. I know it resonates with yours. This is like you wrote the book because grow together. Do it together. It's a, it's a two hour read, your book. It's a it's a it's written for dads. It's not like a crazy long...
Zack Blair: [00:36:38] Show me the babt, don't tell me about the delivery, right.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:36:40] Yeah. Let's get, let's get after it. Let's get after it. Get to the point. So why is your heart in the same, like guys have to gather and grow together? Would you go a little deeper, why it matters?
Zack Blair: [00:36:52] Yeah. One of my good friends is, he's quite opposite of me. He's very direct, and people tend to be a little intimidated by him. And, he's a he's a CFO in a he's a he's now he's a chief strategic officer. Really, really, really good friend of mine. And, my son was acting up, one of my boys was acting up at, school, and he looked at him and he corrected it, and, then he came back and he's like, I'm sorry. I thought it was a little bit too harsh on him. And he actually wasn't like I, my wife said, Thank God Matt did this because I was mortified, you know. My son was just running around like crazy. And, and, and I think that it does take, a group of men to show these kids, to show all of our kids what manhood is all about, and to hold each other accountable in the context of a group to being a connected father, because all of us have those moments when we want to run, when we want to give up, when we want to just flip out. Every one of us has. But we got to have a lifeline, and our kids have to have multiple examples to say, hey, this is the norm that I grew up in. I had 3 or 4 guys speak into my life, and they were there for me when I needed them. They celebrated my adulthood. They, you know, they cheered me on. They champion me. They were friends to my father to make sure I was engaged. And, that connection is everything, right. I love your heart for that, Jeff. I mean, you do such a good job of inspiring connection, man.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:38:20] Well, you're you're adding though a deeper layer. So my the layer I was kind of teeing up was just that I don't grow, I drift back towards being dad average. I drift right out of headed towards DadAwesome to like, no that direction without brothers who help me follow through on my intention. I'll have good intention. Will I follow through? I need guys in my corner. You jump to the second layer. Which is your kids little eyes, they're watching dad. But, man, if they can watch some other men who love Jesus and love their wife and love their kids, how the impact multiplies. So I love that you went to the second layer. It's worth the work, though. It's it's worth the work of finding these men and growing these friendships because it's if it was easy, we would all have it. It's hard stuff. We gotta fight for it. Like, you are, we got a fight with our attention and fight for that connection and fight to stay when it when it's easier to leave. I'd love to give you a moment, Zack, for just kind of last words. Any last things on your heart that you're like, oh, do this. And sometimes the framework is when you think forward to your kids having their own kids. So you're talking to, you know, your, your son, you're talking to a future spouse of your daughter, like, what, like rookie dad advice would you maybe want to pass on to them? Or just not even advice like, man, this would make all the difference if you do this. What are some of the maybe top, top things you would want to say to your grandkids or your kids as they become the dads?
Zack Blair: [00:39:46] Yeah, this this might be this might be pretty deep, but, and, I'll trust that I can get it in and out very concisely. When you hold your child and you look at them and you feel the pain of, maybe I didn't receive this or I didn't, I don't, I don't know that I received that unconditional love or you receive that, you know, there's there's always a moment, I think, in every man where we look back on our life with regret. That's an area that if we dig deep and we we allow the Lord to heal and we open up to the right people, that will change our family's trajectory forever. So a lot of guys will get stuck in, in the normal things that society talks about to distract us. But there's a part of us that's unhealed. And if we can focus on that part and with kindness and curiosity, just go there and ask the Lord. Lord, when did I when did I accept this lie? Or when did I develop this, this belief, about myself? Or when did I experience this pain and God where were you in those moments? Even with, even with help through counseling and and pastoral guidance even, men, when the Lord heals that it'll change everything and you will be set free to be the dad that you really want to be. So go there. Be brave enough to go there.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:41:12] That is the the principle of 72. Like that, that is the compounded, like when we go there, it pays itself back and it multiplies and multiplies and multiplies. I'm so grateful for that, that encouragement and that challenge, because it's going to be a fight to get into that with the counselor, potentially with a pastor with a therapist. Like it's going to take work, but when we're healed, it multiplies forward healing and freedom in life. So, Zack, I'm grateful for you. In the show notes to this episode are going to be all the links to, to your Instagram, to your book, to the book website, to other, even teachings you've done on this topic. So thank you for this time. I'd love to invite you. Would you pray over all of us dads?
Zack Blair: [00:41:54] Yeah, absolutely. And Jeff, thank you for your work, man. You're doing a great thing here. Thank you so much. So, let's pray. God, thank you so much for every man listening to this, God. And I thank you. You've called them to be the father in their families. It's not an accident. It wasn't their choice only. But Father, you set them apart for such a time as this and you have empowered them to lead their family, God. Thank you, God that they rest in that grace, that they heal, that they live out their divine purpose and that they use their hands for love. God, thank you that their children will look upon them, and they will see a father who expressed unconditional love to their children and will change their families forever. God, thank you for Jeff and for this amazing podcast. Bless it. God in every way. In Jesus name we pray. Amen.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:42:48] Thank you so much for joining us for episode 318 with Zack Blair. All the links, the conversation notes, the transcripts, the action steps, the key takeaways are all going to be at dadawesome.org/podcast. Or you could check right in your podcast app first with the kind of flyover notes. I want to remind you guys, the DadAwesome Accelerator Group, we get about six weeks that will be accepting applications, and you can expect the next five or so podcasts to release a little bit more information each week about this special new opportunity for only 10 of you. It's going to be, again, a pilot group only offering 10 spots, but so grateful to offer this experience. Email awesome@dadawesome.org to receive a little more information and the link to apply. The email address, one more time is awesome@dadawesome.org. Guys, thank you for being dads who put what you hear, put what you learn, put what you're inspired with into action. We are dads who take action and apply what we learn in our kids experience the difference. So let's go pursue the hearts of our kids. Love our wives, if we're married, love them well and let's lead our kids towards Jesus. Thanks for being DadAwesome this week.
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· 35:00 - "An apology, it goes so far with [your children]., Hey, dad's imperfect, but he's trying, and he's taking ownership in the areas that that he missed it. I tell my kids, I'm not going to be a perfect father. I'm going to do some things great. You're going to look back and you're going to say, man, that wasn't so great. Whatever we did great, carry it on. But whatever we didn't do great, fix it and keep on getting better."
· 39:53 - "When you hold your child and you look at them and you feel the pain of, maybe I didn't receive this or I don't know that I received that unconditional love. In every man where we look back on our life with regret, that's an area that if we dig deep and we we allow the Lord to heal and we open up to the right people, that will change our family's trajectory forever. A lot of guys will get stuck in the normal things that society talks about to distract us, but there's a part of us that's unhealed. If we can focus on that part and with kindness and curiosity, just go there and ask the Lord, Lord, when did I accept this lie? Or when did I develop this belief about myself? Or when did I experience this pain and God where were You in those moments? Even with help through counseling and and pastoral guidance, even when the Lord heals that it'll change everything and you will be set free to be the dad that you really want to be. So go there. Be brave enough to go there."
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