344 | Growing in Sonship, Reaching Men Through Breaking, and Being Known in Your Struggle (Michael Swalley)
Episode Description
Michael Swalley joins this episode to share the unexpected connections between breakdancing and fatherhood. Tune in to hear Michael’s thoughts on the battle against busyness, the power of your wife’s voice, and the value of being known by others. As you embrace your identity as a son of God, you’ll experience the freedom to be the father you are meant to be.
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Michael Swalley is the Executive Director and North American Regional Head of Break Free Ministries, where he works passionately to make disciples in the global Hip-Hop community. Michael and his wife, Ellen, live in Colorado Springs with their three daughters and one son.
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· Your fatherhood journey might begin with grieving the loss of many things.
· There is power in the voice of your wife.
· How much of your busyness is motivated by trying to earn an identity God has already given you?
· The fundamental truths of God don’t put you in a box; instead, they free you up to express yourself more creatively.
· Just like breaking, fatherhood is a communal experience, and attempting it in isolation will affect your performance.
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· Apply to join the Fall 2024 DadAwesome Accelerator Cohort: Email awesome@dadawesome.org to learn more
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Podcast Intro: [00:00:01] Being a great father takes a massive amount of courage. Instead of being an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a decent leader. The oldest dad in the world gave you this assignment, which means you must be ready for it. As a dad, I get on my knees and I fight for my kids. Let us be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. I want encounters with God where He teaches me what to do with my kids. I know I'm going to be an awesome dad because I'm gonna give it my all.
Michael Swalley: [00:00:38] You have the freedom, as you learn the basic forms of breakdancing, you then are freed up to be able to express it in the way that you were made. You know, in very similar ways, there are some very basic fundamental truths of being a father that we learn from God who is, you know, revealed Himself as such. And those truths don't put us in a box. There are some really true aspects of being a father. But then as you, as you live into those, what that does is it frees you up to be the dad that God has created you to be. There are really great general truths. But then I would say, as we press into those, that allows you and I to father our kids, it's in the way that we were made to and the way that they were made to receive that, and it just unleashes a creative potential.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:01:24] Gentlemen, welcome back to DadAwesome. My name is Jeff Zaugg, and today, episode 344, I have Michael Swalley joining me. I'll introduce him in just a minute here, but I want to remind you guys of what's coming up this fall. So at the end of September, you've got about six weeks, a little less than six weeks to apply to join the DadAwesome Accelerator. This is the third round of us promoting, inviting saying hey, join us for, it's only available for ten dads. And it's ten dads who say, I want to go all in for six weeks, so it's not a long commitment. It kicks off in the middle of October, but the deadline, again, is end of September. We're actually already over half full for this fall's cohort, so if you want to learn more, you just are curious at all about the DadAwesome Accelerator, send an email to awesome@dadawesome.org. It will send you all the bullet points of this is what we promise. The kind of this is what the experience is. And then right back, we're going to include what the expectations are, and you have to apply. So, we're asking you to prayerfully apply to join this falls DadAwesome Accelerator. Okay, Michael Swalley was introduced by, actually, two different friends mentioned him. His family, he's a young dad, has four kids, lives in Colorado Springs, and he leads an incredible ministry called Break Free. His focus, he'll tell you about this, but breakdancing. The hip hop culture, specifically breaking the breakdancing, which I just enjoyed with my daughters. We loved watching breakdancing in the Olympics here just about three weeks ago, and he's going to take us into his journey as a son, as a dad, and then the ministry he's been leading for 18 years and how they reach young men, young fathers, but also young men who are experiencing fatherlessness in these different urban centers from around the world. So here we go, episode 344 with Michael Swalley. We're jumping right into, my first question to him was, tell me about what was dad life right from the get go? How did it change, or was it different from what you expected? Tell me about the young dad years. Here's Michael's first answer.
Michael Swalley: [00:03:41] For me, with my first was born, when Emerson was born, in the hospital, right. I didn't have, like, this hugely incredible moment of man, I've never experienced this kind of love before. It was like, I'm scared. I'm tired. I don't know, I've never changed a diaper in my life. I don't know what to do. And, and one thing I learned, Jeff, in bringing her home, right, being up late at night, going through the day to day where you really don't have a choice, right. In those in those early years. I saw my love grow in those in those moments, right. So I think one on the positive side, I saw what service in the day to day, right. In kind of that grind when you don't feel like it. How God has designed us, how love grows in that. Because though in the hospital on that day, I may not have had that mountaintop love for her, the way I love my kids continues to just blow me away. And it's not because of me. But that was, that was truly, right. Born within kind of that day to day grind. And so one, I see the the importance of that. Right. And I see what is developed and produced, in the heart of a father, right, in those moments. So that that for me has been such a beautiful thing to learn and to see. But also I, and this Jeff, there's so many layers to it, but I also grieve. And then started to grieve in those moments because I have no memory of my dad. I don't, I don't know anything. So everything I heard about fatherhood, it was always second hand, always right. I never experienced it. So now as I experienced fatherhood, not first from the place of a son, though I and I love how you guys emphasize sonship, but I, you know, experience a lot of it first through the place of a father. And so what that did to me is I was I started to grieve and I was actually getting very angry, in those moments. Because whether it be crying out to God, saying, God, this is what I wanted, I didn't even know how to say it or experience it.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:06:01] Right.
Michael Swalley: [00:06:02] But this is what I wanted, how I feel for my kids. This is what I want as a son. And, and then wrestling with that, angry at my dad, he, he, he took his life. And so I experienced a lot of anger. Anger that I never really experienced again growing up. I didn't even know how to experience that. So not only, Jeff, am I, am I growing in my love as a father, which is again, a beautiful thing, I love that. But now all of a sudden, this grief and this anger and the sadness is coming with it. It's coming with it. And that surprised me, that I didn't expect.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:06:40] We've explored this a little bit in past conversations, but I think it's it's always worth another another round for myself and for whoever's listening. It's the idea of layered grief that actually the start to dad life, the start to a fatherhood journey often includes layers of grief. There's loss of this season if you're married, of the flexibility that you had before and the pursuing your wife and that there's a loss of even some can be for a season, a chapter, some physical intimacy because of, hey, body healing, right. There's loss of schedule flexibility. There's loss of sleep, there's loss. But then you're bringing up the layer of grief, of, oh, my goodness, I didn't even know this was here. But I'm realizing what I didn't have or what I wasn't prepared for. And now you have like, grief that maybe has been lodged somewhere unattended to from 30 years earlier, right. And it's so it's just an interesting recipe of it's beautiful because when we press into grief, there's healing and there's, I didn't even know I had that breakthrough waiting for me. But there's also, like, there's some dads listening right now, they're young dads are right in the thick of it. They're not, they don't have 11 years of dad experience like you do with your oldest being 11 right now. What else, what else would you maybe share back with a picture that dad, in the first couple years of realizing, oh, there's something else there. What would what would you kind of coach us or share some learnings that you can pass along?
Michael Swalley: [00:08:09] I thin, I think, for one, you're not alone, right. Truly, you're not alone. And to be able to be known in that grieving process, like you said, with the schedule, right, the flexibility, the the time with your wife, the physical, yeah, the physical intimacy that all changes, right, the, the flexibility of schedule with friends or other things. I think often we can feel so guilty about that, right. Because, we're like, well, you know, this is part of being a dad and a father. I'm called to this, and it's sacrificial, and it is, but I think one be known in that, right. Because we do go through it, and I like how you said those layers of grief, right. I am grieving these things. And and so I would say one, you're not alone, right. Two, be known in it because these grieving like they they shift and they morph as, as your child gets older. So in the early years surround yourself. And so even as listening to this podcast that there's a a need and a desire, right, obviously that's there. And so press into that, press into that even more and start early, start to learn how to be known in these things. And don't let guilt, you know, paralyze you or keep you silent in that, you know. So, so I think that's fun. Surround yourself with others and but but to press into that, right. Why are we grieving these things and, and continue to move forward? I mean, don't let it stop you from pressing into, you know, the relationships. Because though we grieve what we are giving up, right, it is worth it, right. And it is. So go through that process right of of wrestling with those things and, but continue to press into, right, your family, your kids and then other other dads who, who can know what you're going through. Because it can be isolating, right. You can feel alone in those in those feelings and that can be hard.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:10:03] Yeah. Just to jump forward a little bit to present day and what your daughter, your oldest daughter, let's use her perspective. What would she say about dad if she was going to just bring up a few things about you, words or phrases that would describe dad, what are maybe some things that would be top of mind that you think she might say?
Michael Swalley: [00:10:22] That she might say? Yeah. So, I think, I think first, Jeff, and I say this with a lot of humility. But by God's grace, I think she would say Dad's for me. Yeah, no matter what, he is for me. Gosh. I remember the first time that my little girl did not want to hold my hand and did not want my hand on her. I remember that, it just, it's one of those moments, right, it just sticks out in my mind. And I asked and it was in anger, and I remember grabbing her little face and saying, Emerson, I just want you to know this does not change my love for you, right. I love you no matter what. And so I, I think, Jeff, she would say that, that Dad is for me. I have also learned, Jeff, through my oldest and some of my other kids, how to encourage their own giftings, right. So I was a sports guy growing up, love sports, you know. And, my oldest, Emerson loves Irish dancing. She loves to crochet. She uses these gifts well. And so as a dad, I want to be able to see how God has made her and encourage those giftings, so that she can, you know, bless others, love others, be celebrated in that. So I think she'd say, man, dad, dad loves what I do. He's proud. He's proud of me. And so there's, there's that. And then she'd probably say he's a little embarrassing, you know. You know, with the different jokes, the sense of humor, she's getting to an age where she can kind of understand, right, that and like roll her eyes at me and and not be impressed by any joke I may have. So I think, I think dad's a little a little embarrassing, for her as well.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:12:26] I love that.
Michael Swalley: [00:12:27] But. Yeah. So it's, it's a great question. And and, but really, yeah, I do. He's for me. He's proud of me. You know, what she does.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:12:38] Question around, like what, through their eyes, like what, how do they see and perceive Dad? I'm gonna ask it from a slightly different angle, around, around your wife, Ellen. And what would you say that Ellen might reflect on if she was like, oh, these are some areas that, that Michael is working on, in the Dad life. Like, these are some areas, are their areas on the dashboard of like, I want to see some improvement there? Like, she sees it, you see it, but what would she maybe reflect on, these are areas that Michael's working on?
Michael Swalley: [00:13:05] Yes. Yeah. First, it's the importance of loving Ellen, right, loving Ellen. And for my kids to see that Ellen and our marriage is, is a priority, right. And so that would be the first thing. I can often, Jeff, when I get home with my time, my energy go straight to the kids because they're very much right in, as in and running to the door and dad that right like that. And so for me, and with that, that hearts, okay, I'm going to go here first. And so, I think, first and foremost is showing them, right, the importance of their mother, right. And the safety and the security that that can bring for them, right. And so practically speaking, am I able to say, kiddos, I'm home, I'm going to spend these first few minutes with your mom, right? And you guys stay in this room, we're going to...
Jeff Zaugg: [00:14:02] It's so hard.
Michael Swalley: [00:14:02] You're gonna stay here.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:14:02] It's so necessary, right?
Michael Swalley: [00:14:03] Yes, yes, yes. You know, and so there's, there's definitely that. One of the conversations, Jeff, we've also been having, Ellen and I is that, that the ministry for her feels like my priority right now. And, and and there's a lot of truth to that, where it's not just right, the time that I'm at home, but the the quality, right. The energy that I bring for our kids, you know, and, and and she sees that and, and she does appreciate the time that may be there, but then the quality that I'm, and what I mean by that, too, Jeff is even asking me, hey, can you take some individual time with each child, right? Is there a way where you can, kind of like saying differently gifted, they receive love different ways? Are you able to to do that? Can you? I had three girls first night, so wrestling was not within my schedule. They didn't, you know, it's like I wasn't throwing them around. And now my son comes along and like, it's all he wants to do, right? And so...
Jeff Zaugg: [00:15:14] Yes.
Michael Swalley: [00:15:14] So last night, for example, I wrestled with him before bed, you know, had a little wrestling match. And so I think for Ellen too, it's seeing that, I am putting in the thought and the love for, that each child is different. And am I able to to meet that child, you know really where they are? And so that has been something she's been encouraging me with, you know, lately and you know, is that, is that. And then, I would just say lastly, you know, one, yeah, loving, loving Ellen well. Two, kind of meeting each child, you know, where they are. And then three leading spiritually and, and this is something, Jeff, where my wife will see me praying with our other staff members. I'll be making time for that. I put it in my schedule. I have these things, right. And we don't have a regular devotion time with our family. And, and she has verbalized that time and time again and and we'll start and it won't go the way that I want and the kids are laughing, you know, it's like the expectations I may have for that compared to the reality of it. And yet, the importance, right, of that rhythm in the midst of that. And so she has asked me, and I sit here today, Jeff, and saying, yes, we, you know, she's asked me that Saturday nights, we'd like to have and it's fallen off yet again. And so that is a, that's another thing the way that we, you know, spiritually lead and include our kids within, within our spiritual lives.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:16:59] Yeah.
Michael Swalley: [00:17:00] So those would be the three, the three main ones.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:17:03] Yeah. Thank you for sharing. And I want to like empathize with, with you on the side of like desire and then follow through around spiritual leadership, specifically. Like the, I think that there's, there's a true battle at play. You know to us lead ministries that are making, you know, reaching and, you know, families, individuals, young men, all, for you guys, globally, for us, much more footprints here in the US. But the, the difficulty to, to see tangible progress on the home front in areas that we care deeply about, and we can almost see more progress on the, on the dashboard of the ministry than we can on our own family. And yet to stay in it, to be willing to talk about it versus being a leader that says, I got it figured out. I think it's a huge I like, I applaud that. And then also, though, I empathize because it's like you try things and they don't go as planned because with little people, with our littles, it's just amazing how things don't go. And and yeah, the the litmus test or the like the, the warning light in a dashboard of a car, like the warning light is in my wife's voice. It's like she speaks what the Holy Spirit is trying to speak. I can hear it from her, but do I give her credit, like I would the Holy Spirit or do I, like, push back defensively? And that's, that's, that's me kind of going to the same place as you of like a I struggle with that. The time, as far as like balance of ministry versus, versus the home front. And many dads listening to this don't lead a ministry, but they, they're leading important initiatives outside the home to provide financially for their families. So I think it, it really there's a lot of shared learnings here of how you realize I need to calibrate back, hit the brakes, take one last trip. Do you have any, have you have you gained any, like, clarity on this is how I need to put boundaries up to keep from pushing too hard on the, on the work front to not have enough in the tank for my family? Any any learnings on that front yet?
Michael Swalley: [00:19:04] You know, I think one and you just mentioned it and I was laughing because it's very much present in my life right now. But, but surely seeing like God has brought my wife into my life and me and hers as one, very purposefully, right. And the Spirit can speak through her in such a unique way, because we are one. And and obviously then I think the enemy and our flesh like really come up against that, right. Because of how powerful that relationship can be. So I think, you said it and it just it really hit me. But the power of the voice of our wife and how God uniquely uses her, right in that. I think secondly, Jeff, it's been, being able to to find the opportunities, right in the normal rhythms of our lives. And, and I've heard different podcasts and people talk about this, right. The, the, the rhythm of your life, you know, and, and how to include your kids into that, whether it be the, you know, the cleaning, the making of the bed, the the bedtime routine, those things, right. Where, where those things are very much present. And being able to press into that which is already in the schedule and is already happening right with, within that. And then, and then for me too, one thing I have been, I've been learning is and this in this speaks to identity, right. And as a son, which I am learning and need to continue to, to grow in, but being able to reflect on and do this not once a week through in the encouragement of, of, of a coach and a dear brother and a mentor of at the end of every week on Fridays for me, taking two hours reflecting on my schedule and then reflecting on the coming week schedule. And what am I really operating out of? Because for me, so often I fill my schedule because I take pride in how busy I am, and my identity as a director and a leader is fueled by my schedule being filled. And and that's again, pride, insecurity, those different things. And so I'm able now to reflect on those things. So as I operate as a son, right, I am able to better and with more freedom take things out. And I'm able to bring more time to my family because I've realized, Jeff, and again, this is I am just learning this. I feel like I'm just scratching the surface on this, but, but truly, how much of my motive in ministry, and how much of my motive in a lot of my activities is to try to gain the identity that I already have, right. I'm trying to gain and earn that identity as a son.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:21:57] You've already been given.
Michael Swalley: [00:21:57] I've already been given, right. And so that that for me, tha theological big picture. I could have told you that, right.. I could have said that, you know, and yes, I'm a son and I'm adopted and but but to to live into that, which again takes requires that that community of others right, to, to help me walk through that. It requires being known and and and being met with grace in the midst of, of my struggle. Those things have really helped me start to grow in my Sonship. And then as that has grown, Jeff, it is given me such a greater freedom to release those things from my schedule, right. Because it's not about me. And in that and, and, and daily, right, a daily battle to be able to do that. But I wasn't, I wasn't putting aside two hours every week and protecting that time until I had someone who has walked ahead of me and tell me, you know, this you need to do. And he meets with me every week and asks me about that and very lovingly, you know, makes that a priority. Because that to can just fall right off of my schedule and I just fill it up again. So, you know, the identity as a son really, I think, frees us up as fathers, to make time with our family. And so that has been a process for me and very much learning, learning that right now.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:23:25] And you want to find, in the most important areas of life, we want to find what are the the big time difference makers? So, if I can change this, it has the biggest impact. And what you just brought up is one of them. If I could have used experiences as a gift, my true identity, it will trickle into so many areas of my marriage.
Michael Swalley: [00:23:45] Right? Yes.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:23:46] Of my kids. Oh my goodness, there's a lot more to explore there. I'm going to, probably pull back into a different topic, even though there's so much more. I would love to go that direction. A question I've never asked before on DadAwesome. Hundreds of episodes I've never asked. Do you think about what are the dad parallels, the dad principles that could be drawn from break dancing?
Michael Swalley: [00:24:13] I'm surprised you've never asked that, Jeff.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:24:15] I don't think I ever have. Now, and I know so little about breakdancing, that, you know, just a week ago, as of the time of recording, we were, you know, watching the gold medal round of the B-Boy. The break, olympic level breakdancing. It's phenomenal. So there's just one week ago, I was seeing the best in the world. But, I'm curious, any, any just top of mind, hey, this principle is an overlap or a parallel between breakdancing and fatherhood?
Michael Swalley: [00:24:43] Yes, yes. So many. Well, I think one in this, as you watched and probably as a lot of people watched breakdancing, right, in the Olympics, there was probably some confusion even about, hey, how are the judges? What are they looking at? What, what's important? What? And so because breaking has very specific forms, right. It differentiates from other dancers for that reason. So you look at yes, the the footwork, the execution, the dynamic power moves, right. So breaking has these specific forms. And as you continue to, to learn and to grow in those forms, your ability to freely express who you are actually increases. You have a freedom as you learn the basic kind of forms of breakdancing. And as we saw on that stage, you then are freed up to be able to express it in the way that you were made. And I think, you know, in very similar ways, there are some very basic fundamental truths of being a father that we learn from God, who is, you know, revealed Himself as such. And those truths don't put us in a box, right. As you interview hundreds of people, right, Jeff, there are some really true aspects of being a father. But then as you, as you live into those, what that does is it frees you up to be the dad that God has created you to be. Because each one of us, God has gifted us with unique kids, and He knew those kids that we are going to father, right. And He knew that we were uniquely gifted with our lives to be able to father those kids. And so there are really great general truths. But then I would say, as we press into those that allows you and I to father our kid, it's in the way that we were made to and the way that they were made to receive that. And it just unleashes a creative potential, right, within us. So there's one.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:26:30] Well and, and just to pause in it for a moment, I watched a YouTube tutorial on the six step, the six steps, one of the basics. And now have I with, my girls, not yet. This was me in my office, so I need to actually take it the next step and try it. Both the standing up first and then the like down on the floor. So, so yeah. Do you have another parallel between breakdancing?
Michael Swalley: [00:26:52] Breaking and hip hop in general is is really a communal, a communal art and sport. Is it a sport? Is it an art? You know, both. And there's, you know, something called a cipher. And a cipher is a circle, you know, for a lot of the listeners, it's like at the wedding, right, that you dread. You dread the cipher, the circle, and being called out. Well, it's interesting when you when you talk to dancers, you can tell those who who learned in the midst of community, right. And that's all, the only way you could learn years ago. But now kind of like, kind of like you did, you can learn on YouTube and you can learn in isolation. And that affects the way that you dance. It affects the way that you interact with others. And you can, you can tell. And so I would just again encourage we've talked a lot about community and how important that is. Because the scary thing about a cipher is that you could be judged, you could fall in the middle of it, right. You don't know what other people are going to think. It's a scary thing, but you miss out on that community. So I would just say in the midst of fatherhood, each of us is going to father a little differently, just like every person dances differently. And yet in the middle of that cipher, when you're known in both the good and the bad, that brings a lot of power to it. It brings a lot of power to it. So that would be the the other encouragement and parallel that I would have.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:28:17] Wow. We've been in a summer series around we call it DA+3, DadAwesome plus three. It's the only way to be DadAwesome is in brotherhood. As soon as we go in isolation, we only, it's me learning for my kids and my family. We actually are heading in the opposite direction of DadAwesome. So so that's a great visual though. It's funny, I actually find a lot of comfort in the cipher, in the dance circle, as long as I'm planted on the outside of the circle. Tons of fear about jumping into the middle, except for the worm. The worm is kind of my go too. I'm a pretty tall dude, so it doesn't take much to kind of pull off the worm. Sometimes I'm bruised up afterwards, but. Well, let's let's go into the reason I bring up breakdancing and fatherhood. It's such a random question if it doesn't pair into this next piece. So you, the ministry now for, I actually don't recall, if it's 18 years, 15? You'll have to tell us the time frame, but Break Free, the ministry that now is global with different chapters and leaders. Can you tell us about the ministry and the work that you do?
Michael Swalley: [00:29:21] Yeah, yeah, I would love to. And so, yeah, it's been about 18 years. Yeah, Jeff. And born out of seeing really families in the urban setting, again just generationally broken. And at the heart of that is fatherlessness. And, and we see that really across the world there are a few differences, but really across the world. And again, ultimately, I think that comes back to sonship and daughtershi, sonship and daughtership, right. God has designed that nuclear family, right, to be able to communicate those things right away. And and that has been generationally destroyed. And we see that all over, but we focus in the, in the urban setting. Now, we laugh, you know, I'm from Alexandria, a small town in Minnesota. And it's not the hip hop capital of the world by any stretch of the imagination. But I did grow up in the 80s, and so I had a fascination with, with breaking. I saw Breaking, Breaking 2, right. Like the MTV videos. So, so it was there in my head as a, as a fascination. I picked it up as a hobby in college and and it wasn't, though, until Jeff, I was in Melbourne, Australia. I was living in the heart of the city. I, you know, had it as a hobby, but I really was around kind of this underground hip hop community for the first time. And I saw breakers at this local YMCA, and I just went and joined them. Started practicing with them, again, it was a very communal thing. And over time I started to hear their stories. Now their stories resonated with me and that as I shared before, I grew up in a single parent home. My mom, my sister, and I. I saw my mom physically struggle. She had been diagnosed with M.S. when I turned one. I lost my dad shortly after that. And so I saw, right, the struggle of sin relationally, physically, all of these things. But man, Jeff, I had an incredibly dynamic church community in my life. So I saw what the family of God can do even, in the midst of brokenness. And I was saved in that context. The gospel was lived out, was preached, was this incredible community. Even when I go back to Alexandria, to this day, there's still there, you know. I still see the same people and there still involved in my mom's and family's life. So I had that aspect of my story. So now, as I was breaking with these men, it was mostly men in their 20s and 30s, right, who are in the active hip hop community. The stories were the same in the generational brokenness. But then there was really no gospel voice. The church wasn't reaching these men so that, God sparked it in me. Jeff, at that point, I wasn't planning a hip hop ministry, I wasn't. But, but my story intersected with with their story. And so I was encouraged through some other voices in my life and other men of, hey, you should look at doing this as a ministry. And so here we sit, 18 years later, Jeff and and truly at the heart of what we do. So here's the hip hop culture, it's this underground community and culture, really, in every major city around the world. There are men that are, mostly men, already meeting in specific locations. So we don't have to come up with meeting places. We don't. We go to where they are. And again, the heart of the Father, we feel we really want to communicate that to these men, but we're going to go to where they are. Build community. As you said, we need brotherhood. We need, you know, the church, the family of God to learn our identity, to experience grace, to experience love, right, to experience the love that God has. That's again how He has designed it, that we need each other to, to really see and experience His love. And and that's at the heart of what we're doing. And we believe, Jeff, is we and we really do focus. People are like the hip hop community? You know. Is that still around? Is it? You know, and it's like it's this, you know, this niche group of, again, 95% men, you know, in their 20s and 30s that that we are able to really reach and bring community and the gospel to. So that's, that's our heart behind it. And, and how I got started in it, which was not expected.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:33:21] You know, when I answer that similar question, when people ask me about DadAwesome. About our Fathers for the Fatherless events, I often am like, I didn't expect this. Like the idea of hundreds of men cycling 100 miles like that doesn't make any sense. Like I'm not a cyclist or I'm not into that. Like, but it's funny how you take your story. I knew that doing hard things physically in community forms, deep brotherhood, and I know that pressing into hard things actually connects our hearts deeper with the cause that we're riding for. And so, and there's an active side, men, men in their 20s, 30s, like, do something active versus sit around and talk and have a conversation. So I see some parallels for sure of of the heartbeat, the mission. But it's just such a unique spot that God has called you. And then now, 18 years later, in the Olympics to be celebrated, is so cool. I mean, go back 18 years ago and not, no one that you were meeting with in these pockets in different urban centers, no one's thinking Olympics, right?
Michael Swalley: [00:34:20] Right.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:34:21] How cool. You know, I can, with my girls, go watch a few videos on your website and very quickly help my girls understand what Break Free is all about. And then I can hop over, and go watch some of the Olympic finals of B-boy and B0girl like, which I've already done. I've already done with my girls. But I can do it again, and then I can go to the six step video and learn. And this like connecting even my daughters with the here's someone who, in an unexpected way, the call of God is 18 years of walking out faithfulness. You, I mean, Michael, like you've done this and I want that for my four daughters. I want that for myself, and I want that for every dad listening that we would actually be open to a very nontraditional path. I, I interviewed, Bob Goff a couple years ago, and he's like, quit your job. He's like, quit your job and go do the thing God made for you. But I, you know, it's not a name drop. It's a principal drop that I want to remind to are people. And, like, we should all be open no matter what stage, what stage of our career, if God puts something on our hearts to, like, explore. I want my daughters to see a dad who's willing to be courageous and go explore the thing. And it doesn't have to be for an income either. It can be on the side. My goodness, DadAwesome was three four years on the side before it became a job for me. I'm sure there's a story there for you as well, but the, yeah. So there's another example of an action step in the the breaking area, the break dance, hip hop culture with Break Free. So, so grateful for you, Michael. I was going to just ask before I have you pray for all of us dads, is there any, just other kind of top of mind, something on your heart that you're like, oh, I would love for the dads to hear this, know this? It could be something you picked up along the way from a mentor or something that we just haven't talked about yet that you would want to pass along.
Michael Swalley: [00:36:02] Yeah, definitely. And just to be, yeah, we've hit it already, Jeff. But but but this is, I really believe at the heart right of of fathering, of being an awesome dad, it's truly that identity as a son. And those those times are so often seen, right in our, in our biggest struggles. So I, I come in today, got in a big fight last night with my wife. Didn't talk to her this morning. Left, right. To go do ministry, right, for families and to be on a podcast about fatherhood. And and I was, I was sitting with, with a good friend and he, he was talking with me and I was sharing with him, just being open. And he looks at me and he had prayed for me and said, Michael, here's what I sense. He goes, I sense God's hand on you. And I look back at him and I said, Scott, I hear that. It's really hard for me to believe, right. Why do you, why do you say that? Why do you see that? And he said, I just, I sense that from the Father. And in that moment, Jeff, God continually just showed me that this is living as a son, right. That I can walk in to a meeting, to a podcast, to our ministry, and I, and I messed up and I failed as a husband and a father last night, this morning. And yet God's hand is on me. Why? Because I'm a son. And, and so I think for us as dads, again, I can so easily believe when things are going well, right, that, yeah, I'm a sign. Things, things are great. But for those listening now who may be in my spot, right. You need to go back tonight to your wife and humbly confess, repent and turn. That in those, those are the moments, Jeff, right, when when we get to see most clearly our sonship. The writer of Hebrews says, whenever I come boldly to the throne of grace to receive mercy and grace. When? In your time of need. When I need grace, when I need mercy. It's in these moments, right? When, when I don't deserve it. When I don't feel it. And so that that would be it, Jeff, just to really emphasize that, you know. And and again, I love how you've communicated this through your website, through your podcast, through your words that we are, we are learning. We are works in progress. And I come in in the same way. I come in in the same way. And so it's in those moments where our sonship shines through us.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:38:38] Thank you, Michael. Grateful for this conversation. Would you be willing to just say a short prayer for that heart, that you just talked about, for each of us dads?
Michael Swalley: [00:38:48] I would love to, Jeff. Thank you. Father, this this belief in the identity of sonship is a supernatural given identity. And so I pray right now for Jeff, myself and for all those listening that your Spirit would testify to our sonship in the midst of so many competing voices and lies in our lives, and in the different experiences we have had. I pray right now that Your Spirit would testify to that fact, would speak to our sonship, would give it freedom from that, and a grace from that so that we can pursue You, pursue our families even more, that Your love would, would flow from that, and that we would be able to know from our identity, how to love as dads. And I pray for the kids out there that they would, they would know how loved they are. They would know who they are because of our love for them. And I pray for Jeff and this team, that you would continue to open doors, that you would continue to encourage them as they encourage others, and that we would have dads who are just more and more awesome every day. And we pray this in Jesus name. Amen.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:40:09] Guys, thank you so much for joining us for episode 344 of DadAwesome with Michael Swalley. All the conversation links, some videos, Michael's website, Break Free 2024. Some of, more information about their ministry, but also actionable steps from this conversation. Kind of the key takeaways and, and some quotes are all going to be found at dadawesome.org/podcast. You can find all of that there. I want to encourage you guys, let's be dads who put something into action. So if you have something top of mind, great, go do it. Let's be dads who do the next step, who pursue the hearts of our kids. If you're not sure, then go read through those show notes. The transcripts, the action steps, the top takeaways and see what does it stir up as far as something you can put into practice this week as a dad. I want to remind you guys the DadAwesome Fall Accelerator, the deadline to apply is the end of September. But don't wait, because there's only 4 or 5 more spots left. Send an email to awesome@dadawesome.org to get all the information. Guys, thank you for listening. Thank you for being DadAwesome. Have a great week.
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· 23:10 - "The identity as a son really frees us up as fathers, to make time with our family. That has been a process for me and very much learning that right now."
· 25:36 - "There are some very basic fundamental truths of being a father that we learn from God who has revealed Himself as such. Those truths don't put us in a box. And then as you live into those, those truths, it frees you up to be the dad that God has created you to be. Each one of us, God has gifted us with unique kids, and He knew those kids that we are going to father and He knew that we were uniquely gifted with our lives to be able to father those kids."
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