345 | Anger Autopsies, Learning From Others, and Your Fatherhood Swiss Army Knife (Kent Evans)
Episode Description
Every father needs the right tools to raise his kids well, and Kent Evans likes to use the analogy of a Swiss Army Knife. His main blades include asking thoughtful questions, seeking wisdom from others, and staying rooted in God’s Word. Tune in now to discover why anger isn’t an effective parenting strategy—and what you should do instead.
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Kent Evans is the Executive Director and co-founder of Manhood Journey, a ministry that helps dads become disciple-makers. He’s a Christian speaker and author of three books. Kent and his wife, April, have been married for 29 years and have five sons.
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· Be curious and seek wisdom from the men you know.
· Your boys need to hear you acknowledge your weaknesses and imperfections.
· Don’t connect your apology to your child’s behavior.
· You don’t need to have a sex talk with your son; you need to have an 8-10 year conversation.
· As dads, most of our anger is not righteous anger.
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· Apply to join the Fall 2024 DadAwesome Accelerator Cohort: Email awesome@dadawesome.org to learn more
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Podcast Intro: [00:00:01] Being a great father takes a massive amount of courage. Instead of being an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a decent leader. The oldest dad in the world gave you this assignment, which means you must be ready for it. As a dad, I get on my knees and I fight for my kids. Let us be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. I want encounters with God where He teaches me what to do with my kids. I know I'm going to be an awesome dad because I'm gonna give it my all.
Kent Evans: [00:00:39] I want my boys to hear virtually every topic related to their sexual identity and their sexual choices and dating and all that stuff. I want them to hear from me first. And so I want to start early. I want to have an 8 or 10 year conversation. Dads have to lead that with their boys.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:00:57] Gentlemen, welcome back to DadAwesome. My name is Jeff Zaugg and today Kent Evans is joining me for episode 345. I'll introduce him in just a moment here. Want to remind you guys that this fall, we're rolling out another round of the DadAwesome Accelerator. This is only for ten dads. We're inviting you guys to prayerfully apply to be a part of this. We're actually, six of the spots are full, so we've got four spots left. I'll only mention this a few more weeks, probably, till we fill this thing up. But it's ten dads journeying just six weeks. It's not that long, but it's requiring and expecting and all in commitment. We're expectant that by going all in for six weeks, it starts in October, but we end the applications at the end of September, so apply soon. Like I said, it's going to close. We just expect that when dads go all in, and we've seen this from the last round of the Accelerator, when dads go all in for a season, prayerfully with their time, with their pursuit of their kids, with their pursuit of their wife, with reading, with learning, with accountability, with sharing story, with looking back, looking forward. The DadAwesome Accelerator is one of my favorite things we offer. So I invite you guys, if you're interested at all, send an email to awesome@dadawesome.org. Simply send that email and you'll get an immediate bounce back with the kind of the the seven promises and the, seven kind of expectations and the link to prayerfully apply. So email awesome@dadawesome.org. All right Kent Evans joined me this week. He's got five boys. Their, the youngest is nine, oldest is 24. His, one of his sons is married. So he's got a daughter in law as well. He leads Manhood Journey. He's, he's, he's the guy who's given everything to help dads. His heartbeat is to, msn, help dads become disciple makers. He has three incredible books. I'll, I'll mention them at the end of the podcast. He's got a podcast, he's got online courses, he's got curriculum for small groups. He's got some, in fact, one of my mentors is using for hundreds of men using his curriculum around anger free fatherhood. Like, we don't need anger, we don't need to bring that side into our dad life. So we're gonna jump right in kind of midway into the conversation. We talk so long, so many topics. We're going to jump right into me asking a question about kind of, man, the the Swiss Army knife of fatherhood. So here's my conversation, episode 345, with Kent Evans. Let's use the Swiss Army Knife metaphor for a moment, you got this different, it's one tool, but there's all these different like aspects, blades, purposes for that. If if your boys were two and you've got five boys, if they were to say, hey, these are some of my dad would like as far as, like primary like, like areas of fatherhood that you put a lot of focus on and they're like, oh, this is the blade, this is the, tweezers, this is the.., what would be some of their top, if I had them in a room or, you know, sitting around having an adventure with your five boys, what would some things that it would bubble up if I asked them, hey, tell me about your dad and where he put some extra focus?
Kent Evans: [00:04:09] Yeah. Anger, sarcasm, selfishness. Oh, no, wait a minute. You don't mean those kind of tools. You mean the good ones?
Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:17] The shadow side. We'll get to the shadow, later.
Kent Evans: [00:04:22] I would think, man, I think of 2 or 3 things that I think are core for dads, but often, there's so core, dads can easily overlook them. So one of them for me is God's Word. It's Psalm 119. It's like knowing God's Word. How can I be the kind of dad that God is, if I don't know what kind of dad He is? How can I have these traits? And so for me, I believe God's word. I take it at its face value. It says that it is sharper than any two edged sword, that it pierces, that it challenges, it convicts it gives life. And I just believe that. And so I think, as I encourage dads, one of the tools in our Swiss Army Knife needs to be really strong working knowledge of God's Word. The second tool for me, and I, I'm not going to say these in an order like they're in priority order because I think, my kids would say, I remember one of my boys one time saying, hey, you love mom more than you love us, don't you? And I said, yep. Do you have any other questions?
Jeff Zaugg: [00:05:26] Yes.
Kent Evans: [00:05:27] And, we kind of joke about that now. But yeah, if I'm, if you're married, if you're a dad listening to this and you're married, you're, you're hopefully your kids will see that your marriage is a really high priority. Whether that's date nights or vacations or, just time with your spouse. That's for us, very important. And I would say probably the third thing, that's a little bit of a maybe surprise, if a dad's listening is, asking good questions. I think that a lot of dads lose touch with their teenagers because they're still parenting them as if they are 6 or 7 or 8 years old, and they're telling them things all the time. You have to, you got to, you must, you have to. No they don't, man. They got a lot of choices at age 16 and 17 and 18. And what we've got to be able to do is draw them out and understand their heart. And I find one way to do that is by asking really good questions. So for for me, it's God's word, my marriage, asking questions. Those would be three of the big blades in my fatherhood Swiss Army knife.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:06:31] Yes, I love that. And I know another one. I'm going to add a fourth for you, because I know you're always seeking out wisdom from others. And and Charlie Tremendous Jones says you'll be the same dude, he actually doesn't say, dude, you'll be the same man five years from now as you are today, except for the books that you read and the people that you meet. Like so, which I'm like, I don't want to be the same guy as I am today. I have all kinds of areas I want to grow, and I know this is true. This is the fourth blade of that knife for you, I'm going to add it. Is that you are, you're a learner. You are always learning and do you have something to add first before I ask the question?
Kent Evans: [00:07:03] I was just going to, I was going to connect it back to the counselor. He told me, he told me to do that when I was 18. He said, get around other men and learn what they have that you need. And so you've, you've properly identified a thread through my life that that counselor, you know, was the first to sow in there.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:07:20] So I'd love to hear rapid fire, either books, mentors or friends. And just like and just like how you are, like, you can actually name the person or name the mentor if you want, but then like, hey, I'm learning this from this person, or I'm learning this from this mentor, or I'm learning this from this book. Any just like rapid fire of over the past few years, things that you like, I'm definitely learning because of this person, this mentor, this friend or this book?
Kent Evans: [00:07:43] Yeah. I would say when I think of books, the first thing come to mind is I have, I'm so sad that Tim Keller has passed away at the time of recording this. It's been quite a while now. And because I love him, I saw him one time speak live at one of his church's, locations in Manhattan. And, I'm now kind of, still binging on a lot of his books. I haven't gotten all the way through them. I'm right now reading The Meaning of Marriage. I read his book on, Walking with God Through Suffering. I have his book I'm preaching on my shelf that I'm about to start. And so Tim Keller books, man, I, I am, I keep telling my wife when I grow up, I want to be Tim Keller, you know, and so I've been reading a lot from Tim Keller. As far as mentors go, man, I meet with guys all the time. And I believe so deeply in a quote that was in the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. But it's either a direct quote or a paraphrase, I think of a Ralph Waldo Emerson line that was, every man I meet is in some way my superior, and in that I endeavor to learn.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:08:50] So good.
Kent Evans: [00:08:51] I'm pretty sure that's Ralph Waldo Emerson, and it's the idea that I'm sure, right, I could observe a hundred things from guys I know. And I'll tell a brief story, one time I was sitting out with the guy who had written about 8 or 10 books, way ahead of me on the book writing sort of space. And we were talking about writing books. And so I was the learner, right? I was asking him questions about how he prepares his publishing arrangements, how he creates talks around the content. I had all these questions. And then there was a lull in the conversation, and what came up was he was thinking about adopting with his wife. They had never adopted. We have been through two international adoptions with our boys. And what I found really interesting is if you could watch, like, labels over our head, mentor and protege switched in an instant, right. I went from being the learner to being more of the mentor or the teacher, and I find that process fascinating. Just, just in the last week, I was with a guy who's a former business executive and ran a big company, and I pumped him with questions about what we're doing. If I'm around you for more than 5 or 10 minutes, I'm probably going to find a way that you can teach me something or talk about an experience or a skill you have. And now it's become second nature.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:10:09] And that's that curiosity, the blend between what I just mentioned about being a learner and do you even talk about, like, you're always you're you're curious, you ask questions, you love good questions. We just we're like looking with a curious filter at other dads at the playground, at a dad, at church or at work, you hear something or overhear like, like, how can we just be looking for the bright spots? Not the perfect example, because if we, if we sit back and say, well, that person's not better at me and all these ways of dad life, so I'll discount. No, there's actually something there that we can take from every dad we interact with that we can learn and grow.
Kent Evans: [00:10:42] Oh for sure.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:10:45] This is, the layer I want to, I want to ratchet up my curiosity for a moment and talk around the topic of raising boys. And this is, for me, it's a I dive in with my whole heart all the time around raising girls because I can directly apply to my four girls. But we've been praying more and more for my little girls, future husbands. And they they, think it's hilarious. They actually get kind of annoyed that I'm praying for their future husbands. And my three year old, the other day, she yanks on my arms like, daddy, we don't have husbands yet, dad, dad, daddy, we don't have husbands yet. And she's like, on behalf of her sisters, saying you can pray about something else now Dad. But back to the topic, I'm curious, let's just say you fly down, you join me in Northeast Florida. I've got five buddies who all have sons, and I'm like, Kent, give us like, give us the ten minutes, like like fire hose. What have you learned specifically? What have you experienced and learned from others, specifically around raising boys? I have lots of follow up questions, but as a first pass, yeah, what are some of the top of mind?
Kent Evans: [00:11:47] I want to go back and just double click on the idea of asking questions. It is it is so important. Proverbs 20 verse 5 says, the purposes of a man's heart are like deep water, and a man of understanding draws them out. And so for me, I want to be able to draw my boys out and understand what's in their mind and what's in their heart. So asking questions, drawing them out. Number two, boys, can respond, now, be careful how you hear this, but boys can respond to challenge and direct feedback, sometimes a little better than girls. You might say, you might have to be a little more gentle. But I can tell my boys, you know, really close to their faces occasionally, that is not how we talk to our, your mom. That is not how you talk to your mom. I have pulled them aside before and gone into the bed, you know, I'll come in and say, hey, can I borrow you for a second? And, they follow me back to the bedroom. I shut the door and I'm like, no, that is not how we talk to our mom or something like that. And in my best moments, I'm not screaming and yelling about that. Although I have literally yelled at my kids before this phrase, we don't scream at people when we're angry. Like, I've literally yelled that phrase. How much of a hypocrite can you possibly be? Third, I think it's really important, and it may sound a bit, maybe unpredictable or surprising. I think it's so important that our boys hear us apologize and they hear us acknowledge our weaknesses and our imperfections. Especially, frankly, if you're a pretty square away dude, right. Like you got a good marriage, you make some money, you know the house isn't on fire. If you're pretty solid, dude, here's the challenge that comes along with that, your kids will inadvertently perceive you to be perfect, early and they will think you think that too. Their ability to go,man, my dad's amazing. They'll map that on you, and then they'll think you agree with them, that that you are amazing. And so every now and then you got to be able to say, hey, man, the way I talked to you last night was not okay. And I did it because I chose to. And what I would love to teach a dad, I think this applies both to girls and boys, but uniquely to boys, when I apologize to my boys, I do what I call the Siamese twins surgery of an apology. And that is, I don't connect my behavior to your behavior. I Siamese twins, I cut that apart because I chose to yell at you. Because I chose to. Period. Full stop. Your behavior did not cause my behavior. And here's what's really interesting about boys and men. They've got to learn, we've often described maturity, maturity is the, the degree to which you are a mature individual, is the degree to which you accept full and total responsibility for your circumstances and your choices and your decisions. Now, can circumstances happen to you? Of course. However, for the things I do, I want to accept full and total responsibility. So the irony of it is, if your kids come to you, two boys, and you got Tommy and Billy, and Tommy says, Billy hit me. And you say, gee, Tommy, what happened right before Billy hit you? Tommy says, well, I hit Billy. And then we're in the swirl, right? Who started it? He hit me first. What do you say to these kids? Hey, just because Billy hit you, Tommy, doesn't mean you get to hit Billy back. But the irony of it is, most dads don't take that same approach to their own behavior. So what they'll say is, I yelled at you because you were disrespectful to your mom. Or I yelled at you because you were out past curfew. No, man, you didn't. You yelled at them because you chose to yell. Period. Now, are there times when you should yell? Sure, if you're three year olds walking out in the street, that's a great time to yell. Like, it's not that you never do, but that, I'm going to own that. I yelled at you in order to save your life. There we go. Okay, that's a reason. The other thing I want to just briefly touch on, man, if I'm giving guys like, the son raising experience that I found. Oh, man, you want to set me off? Talk about the sex talk. Okay, let's have that. Use it. Use it in that kind of language and say, oh, I'm going to have the talk with my kid.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:16:19] Yeah.
Kent Evans: [00:16:20] That is a fool's errand. And it proves you do not have yet a good understanding of how to help your son deal with his sexuality, because what you need is about an 8 or 10 year conversation with your son that you begin at some point. And now I begin it really early. I'm not going to mention age numbers. It's like, what age you could have a cell phone? Talk to your wife, pray about it. But like for us, I begin those conversations super, super early because I believe in the principle in Scripture we see the law of first mention. That is the first time something gets mentioned. It matters a lot and from whom it comes matters a lot. So for me, I want my boys to hear virtually every topic related to their sexual identity and their sexual choices and dating and all that stuff, even the aberrant behavior in that area. I want them to hear it from me first. If I can be so fortunate. And so I want to start early. I want to have an 8 or 10 year conversation. And so dads have to lead that with their boys. And frankly, I compare it to a big round room. You know, where all doors lead to the same, center point. It doesn't quite matter where you start.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:17:33] Sure.
Kent Evans: [00:17:33] You know, you want to start about what is sex and how are babies born. And, you know, there's lots of places you can start. The important thing is not so much which door you pick, but that you get in the room, get in the room with your kids and start having conversations about that because they are in charge of their relationship with that young lady that they're going to date. Not the young lady, the boy, the man, the young man is is the one I hold responsible. And in my case, I have all boys, so I can lean on them pretty hard about what they're doing. And so that's been some of our fun. And last thing, just because you mentioned it, we don't believe a lot in privacy around here. That is like, later when their teen years, when they get a cell phone, we tell them, here's your cell phone, by the way, we have the passcode. We will check on your text threads. We will check on your internet history, we will walk in your room unannounced with a quick knock. Pretty much any time we want. And if you think it's because we don't trust you, you're right. We don't. Because the world is after you.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:18:37] And your brain is not developed yet. Yeah, and all these things.
Kent Evans: [00:18:40] I remember, I remember one time one of my boys and I got enough guys that are old enough, now, I can say this because, like, you won't be able to guess which one. But he had a young lady in his life, and he texted her an acronym, that's a very common acronym in texting language. But I don't think he knew what the the F in the acronym stood for. And so we saw it one time in his text message, and I pulled him aside. I go, hey, man, here's a text you just sent to your, girlfriend. Do you know what this means? He's like, I think so. And like, okay, time out. We're not sending this text anymore. And here's what this means. And if her dad sees this text, you got a problem. You got a major problem. And so for us, it's about coaching them in the guardrails of, you know, dating and technology that, that for the beginning periods of all that we're we're pretty tight man. We're pretty close to them. And then we loosen it over time as they earn the privilege.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:19:36] Ken, I'm, I'm getting a little emotional on this side of the conversation because what you're describing and the the boldness and the like, strength that you're like, no, that's not like, like it's not okay to have a one time conversation about the birds and the bees like it's not okay. I mean, that's what was modeled, if anything, for most of us, right. And, and this idea of an 8 to 10 year, like, I mean, this is what I pray for is dads to like to raise boys in that type of, not in perfection, but in, oh, it's you're safe with me. I want to be the first one to have the conversation. You're welcome to bring anything, like, I'm not going to respond and make you feel insecure or judged, like, I mean, there's so many layers to this, but I'm like, I'm like, cheering, applauding and crying at the same time of like, more dads, please. Would more dads take, take this journey with their sons and their daughters, of course, but we're talking about boys right now. There is a light bulb moment at some point for you that went off around anger and the power of being a dad who set that aside and says, I'm going to actually, I can I don't need that as one of my tools in parenting. Because it's the default for most dads is is I'm stirred up, I use anger, use my size, my voice, my loudness, my like, right, my strength.
Kent Evans: [00:20:57] Yeah.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:20:57] And so we're celebrating our mutual friend, mentor, the church that just launched Anger Free Father, like your curriculum, which is available to all every dad listening can take to a small group, to their church resource. So this has become a major emphasis for you. But where, when was there a light bulb moment of you're like, oh, I'm going to change directions and not use anger or where did it come from?
Kent Evans: [00:21:21] I'm only laughing because if only there had been a light bulb moment, man, wouldn't that be great? Because there's been like 10,000 flashbulb moments over the last 30 years. You know, James 1:19 and 20, man, for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God. When you, for me, it's been a dawning realization. I'll say it like a friend of mine, Bob Russell, says it about your calling in life. And maybe this is a little side note, but he says some people discover their calling like, Saul on the road to Damascus. It's a blinding flash of light, and they have a 180 and their life changes instantly. He goes, however, it's not usually how it happens. Normally you discover your calling by progressively experimenting with your gifts,. Which I think is a brilliant way to think about calling. I think the same thing for me has been true about anger. I had, it just dawned on me over time, what I think is, a more biblically coherent view of the topic. And I would challenge a dad listening because I'm going to say something that I think they're going to initially bristle at, maybe even get angry with me for having said it, which is, you know, hello. And there might be a message there. I, when you look through, for example, the New Testament, you're going to find about 50 to 60 verses on the topic of anger. And, you know, the only one guys know is in your anger, don't sin. That's the only one they know. So what they say is, they build this whole theology around, well, anger is not a sin, it's what you do in your anger... That is biblically indefensible. You are wrong and you are incorrect. Because three verses later in the same stretch of Ephesians, it compares anger to murder. And so did Jesus often. So okay, here's my position. So-called righteous indignation is very rare. It's true. It happens. I'm not, if you see a child being abused, you see someone being taken advantage of. Yeah, there's probably a moment when anger is going to serve you very well to rescue that child. Okay. I'm not saying there is no place at all for righteous anger. However, what I am saying is, for most of us, most of us, most of our anger is not righteous anger. It is we're mad at our wife about thing X were mad at our kids about thing Y. We're still bitter about how we were raised. We're still angry about that politician who lied to us. We're still mad about what happened at work two years or two decades ago. We're harboring bitterness and resentment and anger in ways that are ungodly and not productive. And that is generally true. And I heard a guy say one time, Jeff, I think so fun and quite accurate. Is it possible to walk across Niagara Falls on a tightrope? Sure. It's been done. Should you try to live your whole life up on that tightrope? Probably not. Probably not. So, dad, odds are, the vast majority of things that make you angry are unbiblical, unwise, and unproductive. So let's go explore those together and see what God's Word has to say about it. Because for me, I have discovered over time that there there is a way to look at life through a far less angry lens and to be able to call my anger out when it happens in a way that's more healthy, albeit sometimes more painful. And I just hope I can get some dads to join me on that that journey. Because frankly, we hear from dads all the time who say their number one struggle is anger.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:25:13] I just had this visual, we went to a water park last week as a family, and we're in these lines, with our tubes and and it's like I get into a rut or a line at the water park, and, and I, for some reason, like it's with my wife or it's with, one of my daughters, or it's even something completely unrelated, but I feel almost like, well, I have to stay the course. And when really I could, I could get out of that line like I am, I am capable to not continue that. And so I use the phrase gentle giant. I'm a pretty tall dude and I'm a loud yeah, I'm loud. I'm eccentric. Like, I can, like, bring a lot of passion to the room, right. I want to be a gentle giant. And I want my girls to like that to mark them. Not moments of me, being angry. And, and those are memorable moments. Like I have one of my daughters brings up something that happened three years ago and she was little. I'm like, how does she remember that moment? But it was in my anger, something, you know, it was a moment that I just stayed the course. I stayed in my my line at the water park, like, you know. Yeah, I wish there's so many those moments I wish I could have back. And they usually tie with, with anger. What are, what are some of so that that group near Atlanta that you're going through with your whole multi-week the course the small group curriculum. What are some of the, if you can just give a little flyover, of some of the major parts of the Anger Free Father?
Kent Evans: [00:26:42] Yeah, a couple things. One, I don't think we realize sometimes what all in our life is conspiring to make us angry. So, for example, you want to be less angry? Let's just say there's a guy listening who says, man, I would like to get rid of some of my anger in my life. Turn off all sources of mass media news for a day or a week or a month. I'm not saying that, like, you know, if you're a stockbroker, fine, you got to pay attention to the stock exchange. Got it. If you're a doctor, you might need to stay booted up on your latest health care. I'm not saying you get out of your lane. However, if you go looking at, you know, pick your favorite news outlet, whether you're on the left or the right of the political spectrum, go look down the news page of your favorite media outlet, and here's what you're going to find if you're, you know, FoxNews.com, CNN.com, whatever your news of choice is, you're going to find hundreds of articles on that news outlets homepage. I dare you, go print that page out on your home printer, get a red pen, circle every article that in fact matters to your daily life or that you can do something about. And here's what you're going to find. You're going to go like 3 for 200, or like you were maybe 5 or 6 for 200. You're going to find that 90 or 95% of the news that you choose to let come at you through your own mobile devices and your surfing habits is designed to make you angry and concerned about things over which you have zero control or influence. So part one is just recognize, man, a fish doesn't know it's swimming in water because that's its native environment. Your native habitat is anger producing because anger causes clicks, and clicks cause revenue, and revenue makes the news, okay. So just consider, consider the possibility that your feed is causing you to be angry. Second, a real easy one, a real easy one is next time you're angry, next time you're angry, try to do an anger autopsy. You know, we jokingly call it the anger-ectomy. And look at what expectations did you have that could have contributed to your anger? So I'll give you an example. Normally your home commute is ten minutes, let's say. You get in your car, you start driving big traffic pileup, that day it's 20 or 30 minutes, and you miss something important. Either you didn't get to work on time and you got yelled at by the boss, or you didn't make it to your kid's game because you were late, and your knee jerk reaction is to be angry at all the traffic. Why? Why? Because it violated an expectation you have in your heart. All expectations are bad, right? My wife expects me not to punch her in the mouth today. I expect her to be faithful to me. Like we have expectations that build the fabric of modern society in a loving Christian home. Expectations aren't evil. Unrealistic expectations are very tricky, and then hidden or unspoken expectations are even trickier still. So what you're going to probably find, like I did, is that a lot of my anger had to do with some kind of expectation that was violated, and if I could just get down to the expectation, I expected my coffee to be ready when I showed up. I expected that Drive-Through to be open. I expected my wife to be accommodating and friendly and want to have sex that night. Like, I have all these expectations that I don't even realize I'm living in. And when they're violated, I get angry. I expect my teenager never to talk back to me. I expect them never to be late for curfew. I, do you? Interesting. If we can get down to where we go, gee whiz, man, I probably have 100 expectations a day, and that's just like a, a stick of dynamite waiting to go off. So look, look at your news consumption. Consider whether you're inhaling angry headlines and then consider underneath your anger, are there some expectations because they're easier to get at. It's easier to get at the expectation, then get at the anger in the moment. So, if you can remove the expectation or at least better understand it man you're off to the races.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:31:02] And sometimes there's the category of anger can feel like, well, I'm feeling more just frustrated or like heavy or I'm feeling just a little bit crabby or like there's less it bleeds into other maybe emotions, but really, some of I would guess that some of the same process of looking at inputs, some of the same process of, of like, let's just remove it for a moment and take a look at where did that come from. I often can't, like I'm not sure, like my wife will ask me what's going on? I'm like, I actually don't know. And I actually need an exercise, like there's something. I'm not sure. Sometimes it's after the anger boils over, the defensiveness that I'm like, oh, now that's what it was. I realized that it wasn't her.
Kent Evans: [00:31:46] So just real quick, real quick. I believe God's word answers all these questions, and I believe it, it lodges in our heart in a way that is powerful. Just for fun. Just for fun. Here's here's 2 or 3 quick verses for you to ponder.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:31:58] Yeah, great.
Kent Evans: [00:31:58] Proverbs 29:11 says, A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back. Interesting. So could our problem be that we're we're being foolish? Ecclesiastes 7 says, be not quick in your spirit to become angry, for anger lodges in the heart of fools. That's interesting. Proverbs 19 says, good sense makes one slow to anger, and this will shock some of your listeners if they haven't read Proverbs 19 in a while, and it is his glory to overlook and offense. Wow. So, yeah, you know, walking around all day, offended by that guy, offended by that lady, offended by your barista, offended by the politician. It is your glory to overlook an offense. Ephesians 4, 2 or 3 verses later than everybody's favorite anger verse, which I think gives them permission to be mad all the time. Let all, not some, let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Anger is not to be managed. It is not to be controlled per se, although we should have control over our mouth and our spirit. Anger is to be put away, is to be put away. And I think as we look at it, it's a very challenging topic because, man, our culture and our modern era and our access to news that doesn't matter. Wow. Last one, Proverbs 16, whoever is slow to anger is better than the mighty and he who rules his spirit, then he who takes a city. Do you have governance over your spirit? Can you rule your spirit? Can I rule my spirit or does my spirit rule me? And we just find anger lurking in the shadows so often, almost every day.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:33:53] Kent, I wish, so I have a bit of a dashboard. I know how much time I spend on my screen because of a tracking ability with screen time on the iPhone, right. Like, there's things that I can track and things that I'm like, I don't know, how did I do? Maybe I'll exaggerate and say I did better. Well, anger is one of those that I think having a little bit better of an audit of just, ability to, like you said, diagnose or to, to give an autopsy of, like, hey, how, how it did this week or today or this evening go in the area of anger? We can grow. Dad's like, I know we can grow in this, I can grow, I have there's lots of room for me to be more of a gentle giant. So, so thank you for the work you're doing with this. I was going to just highlight briefly a few of the resources that you guys offer. And my heart, the heart of DadAwesome is celebrating any dad, any church pressing into this area of fatherhood ministry. Any dad saying, man, I'm going to rally other dads, we're going to grow together. We're going to, we're going to experience healing and freedom. We're going to grow towards be more intentional dads. So when we hear about like anyone, like using the curriculum you've created, reading your books, listening to your podcast, The Mountain Monday email that you put out every single Monday for dads. There's so many resources that, that we just, like, are thrilled to share with our dad audience, DadAwesome community. So, yeah, thrilled about it. What would you say is just like a dream? What are you guys dreaming about at Manhood Journey?
Kent Evans: [00:35:18] Now, that is a great question. And I love how you, you know, activate dads to lead with wonder. I was just with a guy yesterday who was talking about wanting to lean more into the topic of wonder in his life, and I happened to have one of your DadAwesome stickers on my laptop. And I flipped open the laptop lid and I showed it to my friend John, and I go, look at that. They use wonder in their tagline. I love how you think, Jeff, in that regard. What we're dreaming about at Manhood Journey is, I would say probably two main things. One is what happens in a, in a home, in a church, in a community, and in a nation when dads take their responsibility as fathers seriously? When they say, man, I heard a you guys have this cool montage lead into your podcast. And I don't know if it changes occasionally, but one of your montages has said a guy said something like, you know, I want to be, I want to be an okay leader, and I want to be a great father or husband. I can't remember how it went, but he was like, I'm willing to trade, rather than be an amazing leader and an average husband, I want to be an average leader and an amazing husband. For, for, for a dad listening, for a dad listening, let's go, let's go pro. Let's go, let's go to the Hall of Fame as Godly fathers and let's be forgotten. You know, as accountants and lawyers and teachers. I'm not saying those are bad things. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is, can we say, man, I really, really want to to have my role as a dad be something that I invest in. I take time in. I listen to the DadAwesome podcast. I go on a 100 mile bike ride, I do the Tough Mudder, I do these things to get me community with my other dads, because I'm going to take that part of my life so seriously. And I just think that, man, if dads did that, I think about what happens in our homes and churches and communities and cultures. It's unbelievable. Unbelievable. And then the second thing we're, we're dreaming about it at Manhood Journey, that's that's the kind of the main thing that drives us a lot. And the second thing is, what if, what if in our homes, God and His Word were revered and highlighted and central to how we parent. So I'm not anti having, you having some family crest or your family motto. Like, those are amazing ways to activate faith in the home. But if those things become our idol, then we're in trouble. Even if our marriages become our idol, then we're in trouble, right. Instead, instead, I would love, I would love, I don't, I don't want to, like, sometimes I joke with my friends and I'm like, I'll, I'll say something just for the shock value. I'll say, I really don't want to leave a legacy. And they'll look back at me, you know, like, I've got three heads and I go, that points back to Kent. I really don't want to leave a legacy that points back to Kent. I want to leave a legacy that points to God, that points to Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the Savior of the world. Man, if I leave that legacy now, we're talking. And so take it seriously, honor Christ. Those are the things that we dream about all the time. And frankly, those are the things I dream about me doing, right. People could listen to this, oh well, Kent's got it all figured out and he's going to show us how to climb the mountain. Bro, I'm still on the same mountain. I'm still on the same mountain. I don't remember the split second, but I'm sure I've apologized to one of my kids and most recent week or two, because I'm sure I've blown it and I've got a long way to go as a dad. I'm nowhere near where I want to be, but thankfully I'm further ahead than I was 5 or 10 years ago. And with the Holy Spirit's in working and and my wife's benevolent pressure, because she's amazing, she's amazing. I just hope I can continue to progress, you know and join me. Let's go.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:39:18] Wow, Kent. Those two goals, those dreams are contagious and they multiply. And so when a dad takes it as a serious, it's the most important thing I want to like, this is the thing I want to be, really go to the Hall of Fame for, then it spreads because people see them and catch on or they, you know, pull others along. And same with when God's Word is the cup. It's like when they're like, no, Jesus like that spreads. It doesn't stay in the walls of your house, doesn't stay with just the dad. It goes to the kids, it goes to the kids friends. And so I, like more than ever like, even that description of those two dreams, I am for everything that you're leading, you're doing. I'm so grateful to have you as a friend and an ally in this. Like trying to help resource churches, dads, like making not ourselves and our ministries famous, but like, making God famous in this process of making dads waking, waking up dads to like, well, this is, this is the most important thing. So, thank you. I was going to ask if you had any just last encouragement or challenge before you pray for the DadAwesome community listening. Any, any last thing before you pray?
Kent Evans: [00:40:22] My last thing is Jeff Zaugg is awesome, DadAwesome is awesome. And if you got some extra money, support his ministry. And if you haven't done one of his activities, go do it, man. What are you waiting, sitting on the sidelines? Let's go get in the game. Jeff, thank you for being such a Kingdom minded giver and such a good friend, and I am super grateful for today.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:40:45] Right back at you. So grateful. Would you say a prayer over all of us?
Kent Evans: [00:40:50] Yeah. Father, I'm so grateful for today. Grateful for Jeff and his family. Pray you continue to give him wisdom as a husband, with his bride as Jesus was, so much. I just pray for that, that Jeff would have wisdom that the dad listening, who is married, would have wisdom and would lead as a strong husband to his bride. And then secondly, I pray for the dad listening, who has children, whether they're still in the home, little babies that are teenagers. There's an empty nest dad listening, I'm sure, who's trying to figure out how to be the dad to an adult child, who may or may not be doing the things he wants that, him to do. Would You give that dad wisdom? Would You help that dad to stay plugged in? Would You have that dad continue to lead? Would You have that dad stay at your feet and listen to Your Word, listen to Your Holy Spirit, and not just follow the model of some other dad on earth, but to listen to You. You're the Father. You're the one who invented fatherhood. You are the Father inventor. And would You help us to trust You completely in how we father our families? Lord, I'm grateful for Jeff. I'm grateful for DdadAwesome. Grateful for this opportunity today and for the dad listening. Would You just bless the dad listening with wisdom and perseverance in Your son Jesus name, Amen.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:42:06] Thank you so much for joining us this week for episode 345 with Kent Evans. I mentioned earlier, he's got some amazing books. He's got an incredible podcast. His ministry, the Manhood Journey, the books are the Wise Guys: Unlocking Hidden Wisdom from the Men Around You. The second one is The Manhood Journey: Charting a Course to Biblical Fatherhood, and the third one is Bring Your Hammer: 28 Tools Dads Can Grab from the Book of Nehemiah. So these are amazing resources. His website, he's got a, the website is manhood journey that'll be linked in the show notes. But then he also has a Monday email of resources for dads. So I want to encourage you guys, follow Kent Evans in everything they are doing at Manhood Journey. We love their ministry. We love their resources. Guys, let's put into action something you heard today. Let's not make this another podcast that slips through our earbuds and leaves us changeless. We are, we are dads who take action. The DadAwesome way is to learn, implement, grow, apologize, get back up, love your kids some more. And the DadAwesome way is also, man, we are going to bring some other dads along. So share this episode with somebody else. Sharing the DadAwesome podcast. Text it to a couple friends. Leave a rating review that helps more dads join this adventure. Man, we are praying that you would be activated. We're praying that we could activate dads to lead with wonders. Let's bring some wonder to the dad life this week.
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· 24:36 - "Odds are, the vast majority of things that make you angry are unbiblical, unwise, and unproductive. Let's go explore those together and see what God's Word has to say about it. Because for me, I have discovered over time that there there is a way to look at life through a far less angry lens and to be able to call my anger out when it happens in a way that's more healthy, albeit sometimes more painful. And I just hope I can get some dads to join me on that that journey. Because frankly, we hear from dads all the time who say their number one struggle is anger."
· 32:51 - "Let all, not some, let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Anger is not to be managed. It is not to be controlled per se, although we should have control over our mouth and our spirit. Anger is to be put away. As we look at it, it's a very challenging topic because our culture and our modern era and our access to news that doesn't matter. Proverbs 16, whoever is slow to anger is better than the mighty and he who rules his spirit, then he who takes a city. Do you have governance over your spirit? Can you rule your spirit? Can I rule my spirit or does my spirit rule me? And we just find anger lurking in the shadows so often, almost every day."
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