354 | Patriarchal Thinking, 30-Second Investments, and the Ministry of Presence (Vince Miller: Part 1)
Episode Description
Six months ago, Vince Miller became a first-time grandfather. He joins today’s episode to share personal insights around multigenerational thinking, assuming the role of patriarch, and the power of being physically, mentally, and emotionally available to your kids.
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Vince Miller is a passionate speaker, prolific author, and dedicated mentor to men. As the founder of Resolute, he exists to disciple and develop men to lead. Vince has three grown children and one grandchild.
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· You can be given a title—like father or grandfather—without assuming the role.
· Proverbs is predominantly about a father passing on wisdom to a son.
· A 30-second conversation can change the trajectory of someone’s life.
· Fathers need to be present, available, and engaged.
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Podcast Intro: [00:00:01] Being a great father it takes a massive amount of courage. Instead of being an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a decent leader. The oldest dad in the world gave you this assignment, which means you must be ready for it. As a dad, I get on my knees and I fight for my kids. Let us be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. I want encounters with God where He teaches me what to do with my kids. I know I'm going to be an awesome dad because I'm gonna give it my all.
Vince Miller: [00:00:39] An argument ensued, and then I heard my father, he didn't know I was back there. I heard my father yell at her, "I don't want to spend time with him, you spend time with him." And then, you know, sped off down the street.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:00:55] Hey guys. Welcome back to DadAwesome. Today, Episode 354, we have Vince Miller joining us from the ministry Resolute. Vince was on episode 31. So, you know, you get kind of special status if you're in the first, in the first 40 episodes, it's like, Hello. Episode 31 was a long time ago, over six years ago. A lot of life has been live since then. Both for him because he leads this men's ministry movement. He actually has the largest collection of all ministries, all people who are saying, I'm serving men, I'm creating content, small group guides, devotionals. He's leading the way when it comes to resourcing the church, resourcing men around the world with discipleship curriculum. So there's, I'm going to send you to vincemiller.com. I'm going to send you to his latest book out of the Forged Godly Men series, Essential Elements. I've read that book. It's phenomenal. We're going to get to the conversation in a moment here, but I want a quick shout out, hearing your voice. You guys hear my voice on DadAwesome, almost seven years of this podcast. I would love to hear your voice. I'm inviting feedback. Hey, leave me a voice message telling me, hey, what you wish we would do differently. That's fine. Feedback. Positive feedback. Hey, how has DadAwesome been helpful? What have you put into practice? It could be a question you have. Hey, I have got this question? Hey, can you help me solve this? You could even be a question posed that I would ask a future guest on the podcast. I want to hear your voice. It's linked in all the show notes, it's linked on our website. Leave a voicemail for DadAwesome. They're up to 90 seconds long so we do limit them. Here's another example though. This this message is from Steve.
Steve: [00:02:35] This is Steve from Danville, Pennsylvania. And I just loved DadAwesome. Because not only is it a tool, but it's a tool belt in my fatherhood journey. It's such an encouragement to have Jeff cheering me on as a dad. But the ministry brings in such great resources. It's like getting a new tool each week or upgrading old tools that I might have. I'm grateful for this ministry and the encouragement it provides me when I'm not feeling great about myself, as a dad. Picks me up, changes me, and charges me to go forward and keep fighting that spiritual battle. I'm just so grateful for this ministry and for Jeff and for all that they're providing for all these men.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:03:09] So like that voice message I just played from Steve. Thank you, Steve, for leaving that. That's just an encouraging, Hey, this is why I'm thankful for DadAwesome. Some of them are, you know, they're just encouragement, which is fun, but they also can be real more tactical or question asking, and those other other mediums that I mentioned. Okay. Today though, Vince Miller, this is part one. We decided to split the conversation into two 25 minute episodes. Part one, we're diving into some kind of tag back questions from six years ago from episode 31, but also we're going to be on this journey of becoming a grandpa and what's happened. And we really go into his backstory and how Vince was raised and how his grandpa stepped in. And there's, there's kind of a setup to a multigenerational thinking and just everything, Vince is all in in every conversation, in every area, and he just brings his full passion to say, you can tell why he's giving his whole life to serving men. So here's the first half of my conversation, episode 354 with Vince Miller. Vince Miller joining me back for another round. So welcome back.
Vince Miller: [00:04:22] Good to be with you. I love being with you, man. Jeff, you are like a power plant of energy. I'm not going to lie, you build my bags just with your joy and energy. So thanks for having me.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:36] For sure. The last time we had a conversation, we borrowed a room in the church that I was serving actually at the time in Minnesota. We were, but I'm pretty sure we were in the nursing mom's room and sitting in these recliner chairs. The smell of whatever smells are in the nursing room. So today we're not in person, sadly. I mean, it's amazing how smell brings back memories and, and just for fun, I am going to tag in the, in the show notes this conversation because guys like going back like six years and saying, hey, what was in the dad life, Vince Miller, What did he share then? So I am hoping and planning that guys are going to go back and hear a little snippet of that. But if my notes are correct, you at that point your kids were 20, 17, 14 was the chapter of Dad Life back six ish years ago. So today you're in a different phase of fatherhood, Dad life. I would love for you to catch us up a little bit. Tell us about your family and just the current phase of fatherhood.
Vince Miller: [00:05:39] My oldest one is married and they, they gave birth just a few months ago to our first grandchild. His name's Everett. That story's phenomenal. We can circle back to that a little bit if you want. I have two boys. They're both out of the house. They actually own a home in Florida, St Pete, Florida. So we have a home in Minnesota and a home in Florida. So we kind of go back and forth. That's kind of our situation today. It's kind of changed quite a bit since then. I've been through a stage or two of being a dad, so to speak. So, yeah.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:06:14] What's your grandpa name? Do you just go by simple grandpa, or do you have a different name?
Vince Miller: [00:06:18] You know, everybody wants to give me a name and my son in law wants to call me B-Pawe. He's hoping that'll stick it. My wife calls me Pops, and, you know, I'm waiting for the little one to decide. Why can't he decide? Whatever comes out of his mouth is totally fine with me.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:06:36] I like that you kind of have to wait.
Vince Miller: [00:06:37] Dumb dumb. I'm hopeful for dumb, dumb.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:06:43] It's amazing. Now, we had the chance to hang out together in person because you came to this event that we hosted in Washington, D.C., just coming around fatherhood, men's ministry leaders around this, the bigger themes, macro themes of how do we serve and collaborate to serve the church, serve, serve men. I was so grateful that you took time and energy to come join us for that gathering. So many conversations while walking through Washington, D.C., and meeting inside conversations that, that I want to take back to. But I'm just curious, like from this last window of time since we kind of, you know, spend time together three, four months ago, is there anything on the dad life front that you just find, and I know part of this might intersect back with little Everett and the journey of becoming a grandpa, but anything just bubble up top of mind? You're like, Man, let's start here. Sometimes I like to just toss it to the guest to say, Hey, let's start here. What in the dad life do you find kind of risie to the top, as far as an insight, application, a challenge, anything that you find top of mind today?
Vince Miller: [00:07:46] Oh yeah. There was, and I'll get to baby Everett here in a second, but there was something that happened with him. And then I had a friend of mine reach out to me, he was ten years my senior, we've been friends for a very long time. You just, we were texting back and forth and I was telling him about the situation and he goes, Vince, it's time for you to become the patriarch. And, dude, that, that's stuck with me. I mean, that was like a a word of knowledge almost that came to me. And as soon as he said it to me, I was like, What does that mean? Like, what does it mean for me? I mean, I know what it means. I've read the Bible. I've read about patriarchs, obviously. But, but then I was like, it made me think about the role of the patriarch. What does a patriarch do? And I don't know if you've done this in your life, but I think there's times where we were given a title where we don't assume the role. Does that make sense? When you are given a title and we don't assume the world, one of those moments is Dad. We're given a title because a baby's birth in a world, but we don't assume the role of a dad or a father because we don't know what to do. Well, it as soon as this man said this to me, I was like, Bro, you're right. I've got to assume this role. So I started to think about my new title, Patriarch or Grandfather, whatever you call it, the patriarch, as, as now encompassing more than just caring for my own family and caring for my extended family and their relatives, etc., and begin to act like a patriarch, which meant I had to put on a new mindset and think about how I'm leading and the words that I use, and the moments that I teach, the things that I say, how to engage. And I just want to let you know it's complicated, actually, being a patriarch. Especially, I think a Godly patriarch, as God would want us to be. But that's what's been top of mind for me.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:09:39] I'm sure there's a time horizon adjustment with patriarch thinking about like, man, there's a guidance in a direction for generations versus just like the current phase of dad life. What are, go a step deeper into like what areas of stirring fall within this this new role?
Vince Miller: [00:09:58] I think we actually have a great book of the Bible that we could read on this topic. That, of course, is the book of Proverbs. Solomon is passing on wisdom to a son, that's predominantly what you have in the Book of Proverbs, a father passing wisdom to a son. And so if you can read the Book of Proverbs, it's not just reading it for insightful wisdom that you can use in your business. I mean, if you read it as a father should read it, you're, you're going to see this, this careful interaction between a father and son on a variety of topics, on on on topics of finances, on topics of sex, on topics of sin, on on just about anything there. And I think that's what's been going through my mind is how do I direction as a patriarch bring wisdom, so that it it it it it transfers not only to my children, but my children's children and to their relatives? And and how do I do that in a way that's beautiful and draws out the very best of Jesus so that they might know Him? That's what I'm thinking about quite often. In fact, I find myself almost planning, if you know what I mean. I know you know what I mean, because you do the DadAwesome podcast. But I find myself intentionally planning like I'm going to have these conversations. Like when I go golfing with them, what I'm going to talk about?When I, when I show up at their house for a meal, like, am I going to say something? How am I going to do it? I find myself thinking about everything. In fact, even the time I'm going to spend with the grandchild, you know how I'm going to hold him, what I'm going to say, how I'm going to interact, how I'm going to leave, how I'm going to pray. You know, it's like I find myself thinking about everything now, which is something a skill I wish I had a long time ago, Jeff. I think every dad, which is that, by the way, there's always regrets we have that. I just wish I would have deployed this kind of intentionality a long time ago.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:11:58] I'm thinking about your grandpa right now because I know through conversations and through your books, like stories of your Grandpa and the gift that he, I mean the direct like fathering that your grandpa did for you. I think may be helpful, though, for our listeners to hear a little bit of why it was your grandpa that you needed in this role, as far as your dad not being in the picture. Even back to I think it'd be helpful if you'd be willing to share the story in the driveway of you sneaking around the house and hearing kind of this finality moment with your dad that then led to your grandpa stepping in. Would you be willing to kind of share maybe those two stories side by side to help help bring bring us to the point of me asking more questions about this role?
Vince Miller: [00:12:40] Now, obviously, you've read my book. That's, that's awesome. The moment, two stories, side by side. You know, one is a failure of a dad and the other is a dad who stepped in. And that's basically the contrast. So first bio dad, I was a young man. I'm trying to keep the story short, kind of emotional, but I'll keep it short. I just really was about maybe about 12 years old. I was longing to kind of know who my dad was. My mom and dad were divorced. I went over to his house every other weekend, for those every other weekend visits. And there was kind of this mystery about who he was. I knew he wasn't a great guy, but there was something that I think every boy finds alluring and mysterious about their father. And at some point they want to know about their father. Well, I was having one of those moments and I talked to my bio mom. I just said, hey, I want to spend more time with Dad. And she was very, like offputting about that. She really didn't want me to spend more time with him. He was, he was kind of a sociopath, a narcissistic Vietnam vet. He had a lot of things wrong with his head addicted to drugs, you know, and there were things wrong with him that I was unaware of. But I went over to his house one week and came back and I just kept begging her to talk with him about me spending more time with him. I wanted to come to myself, come to my ballgames, hang out with me, you know, do, do things that dad, dads do with kids. And anyway, I, he pulls back up in front of our home, at the end of one of those weekends. My mom comes out to his truck to meet him. It's actually a white Ford Bronco, if you remember that famous white. It was a white Ford Bronco. And anyway, I go, she forced me to go to the house, = go into the house. I run around the house to the back of the Bronco, listening by the gate to this conversation because I had never seen my mom and dad together physically, ever in my entire life. So this was mysterious to me and I was intrigued by it. So I listened in and, you know, the conversation was cordial at first, and then it went south, an argument ensued. And then I heard my father, he didn't know I was back there. I heard my father yell at her, I don't want to spend time with him, you spend time with him. And then he sped off down the street. Well, to say the least, that was the last time I really ever spoke to my dad. I refused to go over to his house ever again. And, you know, I kind of burned a big bridge and created a wound there that was pretty painful. Then my mom got married, divorced again. And after the second divorce, she said she wasn't going to marry again, because she could see it was having an effect on my life. All this stuff was affecting me, which I think to some degree, my parents were casually blind to what was happening to me because they were concerned about themselves. And then after the second divorce, she said she wasn't gonna marry. Then one day my grandfather came over to the house and he is a believing man. He was the only Christian man in our family. He came over to the house and sat down and had a conversation with my mom, and I was listening in and down the hall because it was intriguing to me. And he begged, he begged her to allow me to come live with him. Which was I mean, I'm sitting down the hall, listening to this, going, Please say yes. Please say yes. You know, I just, I was literally begging in my mind that she would agree. And she did. And I moved in with him. And in his home was a very different experience. I went from a dad who really didn't want to spend time with me to a dad who did want to spend time with me. And he happened to be a Christian and who imparted basic, basic things to me that I needed as a young man and basic lessons like how to treat women, how to eat a meal, how to be polite, how to confront difficulty. And the very, very important things like who is Jesus? What has He done for you? How to have a relationship with Him. In fact, the most pivotal conversation I ever had with my grandfather was in his old 58 Chevy pickup. It was a short 30 second conversation and it went just like this, he said to be son, I know your mom and dad say God is not real because Christians are hypocrites and the church is full of broken people. And then he said, I want you to know they're right. Christians are hypocrites, and I am one. And the church is full of broken people, and I'm one of those too. But I put my faith in a man who was broken for me, who is not a hypocrite, and his name is Jesus Christ and it's in Him I placed my faith. And I got to tell you, it just takes one Godly man, one good father who desperately loves Jesus, who's intentional with his life to make a difference in someone's life. I mean, I'm doing what I do today because of my grandfather's investment in me. And that 30 second investment right there was enough to change my spiritual trajectory for the rest of my life. So as much as one bad dad can really create harm, a lot of pain, therapy. A good dad can create a beautiful new trajectory even in just 30 seconds of being intentional through a conversation about Jesus, you just have no idea what God is up to in those Divine Dad moments. So yes, my, I hope to have the same impact on my grandchildren that my grandfather had on me.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:18:17] Vince, I mean, knowing your heart now in this phase, because of this this mentor who kind of prophetically said this is the role you're stepping into, and even you explaining, describing the intentionality around holding little Everett or intentionality with your kids. Having that plus the loving dad involved the love, like, right. So you kind of have this like there's a void of your dad, so it was just a pour from your grandpa. What a gift. But to know, like now you're stepping in and and at the same time you've committed your life to helping men and dads go do the same. And it's just yeah, I think the stories, I'll just reference for a moment, it's this forged Godly Men three part book series. But the first one is the one that I've read. The stories, the threads of your, your life and the deep pain that has led to like clear like on fire purpose. Our conversation six years ago, I just didn't know some of this parts of your story and now I kind of see how the pieces all fit together, right. I mean, it's amazing how just knowing you more now than I did back at that first podcast conversation we had. I'm so grateful. And I want to actually go into some specific questions from this first of the three part book series and how you've kind of used it as just a nudge, like simple short chapters to help men step in and wrestle and journal and have conversations. But could you share with us valleys and unexpected, this is harder than I thought or painful than I thought, but God is right here with us. Those valleys are in the Dad life all the time. But then there's there's there's moments that you never forget. And you're like, God, if you don't move, I don't, you had that moment as a grandpa with your your little grandson, Everett. Would you just share little bit of the story and then how he's doing today?
Vince Miller: [00:20:21] Yeah, so our first grandchild was born about six months ago. He was thrust into this world accidentally. It's, it's kind of a miraculous story. It hit the front page of the papers in Minneapolis actually, it became one of the best, most read articles, actually, of all time on a couple of those papers.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:20:45] I did not know that.
Vince Miller: [00:20:47] Yeah. It's, it's pretty phenomenal. Like, people have come to Christ because of this story. Quite a few, actually. But what happened was my, my daughter was about 28 weeks pregnant, which is, you know, a little ways into the pregnancy, but not enough. She was having some back pain, went to the doctor, left, came home, still having a back pain. She's in the bathroom on the ground, and she said, I need to go back to the doctor. And her husband had been there with her and she lifts her leg to put on her pants and out shouts Everett. Everett was born, suddenly, within a few minutes, we had a bunch of paramedics and emergency responders in the room. They were all 25 years and younger, essentially inexperienced people in the room. It was tiny bit bathroom, by the way, this tiny little bathroom. Got one thing, one stool, and tiny shower tub. And all of a sudden, there's 11 people in that bathroom. There's some standing in the tub, there's one standing on the stool, a couple down in the catcher position, you know, all that stuff. Anyway, they cut the umbilical cord and they race them off to two separate hospitals, of course, what would you expect, right? And Everett, dies on the way to the hospital. They resuscitate him. They race him in the doors and somehow he made it through. The next couple of months in ICU, NICU, were, I mean, traumatic, really. People that have had children in that situation, I'm not talking about the soft part of being in NICU. I'm talking about the deep, dark back part where, you know, everything hanging in the balance constantly. And there's moments that I was so emotional, you can't even describe it. It's like you hear one piece of tiny piece of good news and you hear a lot of bad news, good news, a lot of bad news, good news, a lot of bad news. Well, any way, I, I, you know, we've all just kind of been on edge for months and months and months and months and months. And then, you know, there comes a day you bring him home with like six oxygen tanks, you know, that you don't know how to, you see. And then there finally is the day, the day came where there's no oxygen anymore. He's sleeping normally. He's being responsive, you know, And and so the it is incredible, bro, to have watched that experience as someone who has already given birth, but I can't imagine how my daughter and son in law felt through a lot of this. I would I would assume it was pretty traumatic for them. I mean, my daughter was the rock star. I'm just going to say that. But, you know, there was times I watched both of them, really the emotional roller coaster was crazy. And then I think what was expected of us was, you know, stability, rare faith, encouragement, love, generosity of time and presence like that was a lot of the things that I learned how to give during that time. And and God, I think used a lot of that, and the incredible story of this kid's return to hell, it has become a remarkable, remarkable, I don't know if you want to give it the name tool, but a tool for expanding the gospel in the people, in people's lives. I mean, there was a couple of paramedics there that when they dropped him off at the hospital, when they heard that he was breathing, were just weeping on the ground, in tears. Later, came to find out that one of them made a profession of faith. Because, I mean, that's like honestly, it's emotional. Just when I, when I start thinking about it and I think a lot of other people were very stirred emotionally because there's so many highs and lows. And I mean, there's times you were angry and there were times you were sad or times you're happy. I mean, it was just so many emotions just like wrapped up in this little child. So it's been, it's been a wild ride, but the last couple of months have been amazing. And this is, by the way, the most perfect child. I mean like, it is, we had him over for a weekend. And yes, I was a little tired, but this kid is like the perfect child. He, he sleeps, he laughs, he's engaging, he's easy to take care of. He hardly ever cries, like he barely cries. What a gift to get after all that. So anyway, that's kind of where hearts have been lately and learning how to lead and guide through those situations as a grandfather has been a little bit challenging. Like there's been some hard conversations we've had with, you know, our own children, our son in law, the other, the other family and the other parents. We've had a lot of hard conversations with one another. By hard, I mean like how do we navigate this together? You know, how do we pray about this? How do we engage with one another around the emotions we feel? That, that's, that's a hard moment to lead in, even as a pastor from the outside, because I've been in plenty of those, so you have, being a pastor, you've been a pastor, you understand from the outside it's hard to lead. But how to you lead from the inside as both a pastor and a father, grandfather. You know, it's hard to navigate those things as you get older, becomes a lot more complex. So, that's what I've been wrestling through lately.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:26:25] Vince, the the playbook for fatherhood, right, the playbook for your son in law, rookie dad. Welcome to dad life, right. There's, there is no play for this like, right. There's no, there's no one size fits all. You shared, you shared in our last podcast, six years ago, about dropping your daughter off at college. Okay. And the amount of time, right. The amount of life lived in six years, you know, in that gap. But you said the question, Hey, did I do enough? Like the moment of did I do enough? And you shared two tips. The first was like, hey, like being a mentor is a lot about just living into the character of Christ. Like, that's all we, like we just live more in that direction, imperfectly, right? We just live into understanding, modeling, reflecting, living the character of Christ. And then the second tip was just, Hey, try to make every moment a teachable moment. Look for opportunities to impart Godly principles. You share these two tips. But you fast forward, the threshold of dropping off at college is nothing compared to the threshold of marriage, threshold of like celebrating the, you know, pregnancy, threshold of bringing home a baby. You can't make this stuff up like these, these are, there's no way you can be prepared for what you walk through these last six years. What what have you learned? How has it changed you specifically these last six months?
Vince Miller: [00:27:47] Yeah. You know, I would say that it's taught me more about the ministry of just being present and I mean being present, not just physically, but like, emotionally, theologically, with, with your time, your energy. I, you know, all all three of my kids have been through some remarkable ups and downs over the last six years. And while we want to put some nice tactics around being a father, a grandfather, I really do think that there's a powerful presence that we have where we're actually engaged and we're there for them and we're listening and we just turn on the cues and we're watching. And yeah, some of it's imparting wisdom and guidance. But I mean, I think if you were to ask my daughter or son in law or my two sons, what mattered most over the last six years? They'd probably just say it's a little moments that we had with each other that brought us great joy. I mean, I can think of a great moment I had with my son on the golf course, my middle son on the golf course about a year ago. We were having some super meaningful conversations about life, about sin, about God. And he was asking questions and there was no one else on the course. And we just stopped the golf cart and we were just, on this beautiful day, having this conversation about God. And it was, it was those moments that I was, I was available and I was present to him or could actually turn on my mind and engage that moment. I think that's what I've tried to do well. And yeah, we can turn those those tips that I gave last time I was still deploy those same thing, I use them all the time. But I've also learned a valuable lesson, just about presence, just about being there when they need you. And that means not being somewhere else, right? It means not being somewhere else. It means you're physically not somewhere else and that your mind is not somewhere else. And I think sometimes for dads, that's a hard mechanism to turn off in our minds because there's plenty of dads who are present but not available. But we need to be both present, engaged, available. That's not good, don't use that one.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:30:16] We'll find one. Amazing.
Vince Miller: [00:30:18] But you see the point? The point is, is that we've got to just be present with our children and engaged with them and available so that they can see that we actually care about who they are in that moment. Because in that moment they might need some form of emotional care guidance that we're unaware of.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:30:41] Thank you so much for joining us for this first half of my conversation with Vince Miller. All the conversation links the quotes, transcripts and links to Resolute, the ministry and vincemiller.com are all going to be listed at dadawesome.org/podcast. Next week we go deeper into practical takeaways, ways that we can step into being DadAwesome, living as a SonAwesome. We talk about identity, we talk about themes from this forging Godly men resource and even, even other practical ways that Vince has just like realized men need this for break through. So there's a lot coming. Make sure you tune back in to episode 355. Guys, thanks for listening. Thanks for choosing to make this a priority in the Dad Life. Thanks for being a DadAwesome for your families. Have a great week, guys.
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· 16:15 - " I went from a dad who really didn't want to spend time with me to a dad who did want to spend time with me. And he happened to be a Christian and who imparted basic, basic things to me that I needed as a young man and basic lessons like how to treat women, how to eat a meal, how to be polite, how to confront difficulty. And the very, very important things like who is Jesus? What has He done for you? How to have a relationship with Him."
· 29:31 - " I've also learned a valuable lesson, just about presence. Just about being there when they need you, and that means not being somewhere else. It means not being somewhere else. It means you're physically not somewhere else and that your mind is not somewhere else. I think sometimes for dads, that's a hard mechanism to turn off in our minds because there's plenty of dads who are present but not available. But we need to be both present and available at the same time and engaged."
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