359 | Creating Meaningful Pathways, Never Missing a Birthday, and Making God Your Center of Gravity (Roy Harley)
Episode Description
Roy Harley loves surfing and Christian ministry, but he’s learned the importance of putting his family first, even when it seems unreasonable. In this conversation, Roy shares practical ways he’s created meaningful connections with his kids. He also opens up about navigating the uncharted teen years with his kids and looking to God as the ultimate example of fatherhood.
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Roy Harley is the International Director of Christian Surfers. He was the pioneering national director of CS South Africa and has been in full-time ministry for over 30 years. Roy is married to Sharon with daughter Cailyn and son Nathan.
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· Your family comes before your ministry.
· The pathways you lay in your child’s first 11 years are the most crucial.
· Train up your child in the way God has designed for them to go, and then allow that to flourish.
· Your Christian faith must be your center of gravity, not a distant satellite.
· Bring your full heart to every season of parenting, leaning on God and your community when you don’t know the roadmap.
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· Send a Voice Message to DadAwesome
· Get 20% off the entire DadAwesome Store with code THANKSGIVING2024
· 10 Questions with Roy Harley — Christian Surfers
· Fathered by God: Learning What Your Dad Could Never Teach You by John Eldredge
· The World Needs A Father by Cassie Carstens
· Love Does: Discover a Secretly Incredible Life in an Ordinary World by Bob Goff
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Podcast Intro: [00:00:01] Being a great father takes a massive amount of courage. Instead of being an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a decent leader. The oldest dad in the world gave me this assignment, which means you must be ready for it. As a dad, I got on my knees and I fight for my kids. Let us be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. I want encounters with God where He teaches me what to do with my kids. I know I'm going to be an awesome dad because I'm gonna give it my all.
Roy Harley: [00:00:39] And then I asked each of those men if they would make a challenge for Nathan. So there was a physical challenge, there was a spiritual challenge, there was a financial challenge that he had accomplished within the year. So he had his 13th year to do it. And those dads committed to two things, one, holding him accountable to deliver on what he had said he would do as a man, as a 13 year old man. And the second one, the covenants, as well as the dads that are simply the video messages to say, if you ever need anything, we're here for you. You've got this community that's backing you. You're not alone in this world.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:01:13] Hey, guys. Welcome back to DadAwesome. Today, Episode 359, I have Roy Harley joining me from Jeffreys Bay, South Africa. Before I introduce Roy, I want a quick pass along a Thanksgiving/Christmas gift to all you guys. We've taken everything in the DadAwesome store, it's been about a year, we've had the DadAwesome store up and running from coffee mugs to hats to shirts to some cool track jackets. The DadAwesome gear, right? Well, we're taking 20% off of everything through December 15th. Here's the code thanksgiving2024, no spaces. It'll be in the show notes as well, but thanksgiving2024 is the code to get 20% off of everything. And what a great way to get some gear for yourself as a early Christmas gift or to think about dads that you know and that you want to just say, hey, I see this in you, you are DadAwesome and give them a gift. And, you know, hats, coffee mugs, shirts. What a great, fun, small gesture. You could also get a gift card for, for someone. Those are all available at dadawesome.orgstore. Okay, today, Roy Harley, I was at a dinner conversation hosted by our friends Mark and Lydia here in Northeast Florida, and it was a fundraiser for the ministry Christian Surfers. And I was there chatting with their international director, Roy Harley. And I'm fascinated by the ministry, Christian surfers. How it's expanded, globally the past three, four decades, the impact, how the reaching this subculture of in all these areas with surfers, they're reaching them with Christ, with Jesus, with relationship with local church connection. It's amazing, their ministry. We'll talk a little bit about it here. But I'm just like so fascinated, so curious. Well, Roy, on the other hand, was so curious about DadAwesome. And we like we're having this dialog back and forth. It was just a fun conversation because I was wanting to steer the conversation all back to Christian Surfers. He was trying to steer the conversation all back to DadAwesome and I realized, man, Roy is a incredibly intentional dad and I just what bubbled up is his heart for fatherhood. So I was like, let's connect. So we got him on the Zoom line at Jeffreys Bay, South Africa. We do talk about surfing and maybe a little more than your average episode, but Roy is an incredible dad. So intentional about these pathways that he's created for his son, his daughter, and you guys are going to love this conversation. So, this is episode 359 with Roy Harley. You were thinking about having this chat with me on DadAwesome, just talking fatherhood. What did it stock up? What parts of the journey of being a son, being a dad, like anything bubble to the top that you're like, this is what my, where my heart went when I thought about talking about being an awesome dad?
Roy Harley: [00:04:12] When we first chatted, it was just something that totally resonated with me because it's something that I've strive and striven to be, you know, is is beyond everything else is to be an awesome, awesome dad. And I think often we get caught up in what we're doing and the things that we're busy doing. But at the end of the day, I kind of figure there's going to be a point where I won't be the international director for Christian surfers. I might have a tiny little grandkid on my lap. That is important. That is the value. To have that in a cohesive family and to be in that space, well, looking back, it'll probably be a lot more important than all the stuff I spend worrying about right now. So, and I think that comes from God's heart. So, so yeah, I think that resonated when we started talking about it. I was like, Man, I really like, I really like this idea on this subject. So yeah.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:59] Help us know a little bit about your journey as a son and your dad and maybe even, is there anything that your dad did that you're like, I want to, I want to bring that to my son and my daughter? So yeah, just reflect in that with us.
Roy Harley: [00:05:10] When you're growing up, you're not thinking about that, you're just doing and living life, you know. And then as you become a dad, you start looking back and I think you start reflecting on your own dad. And then I think as a believer, you start reflecting on that with your Father in heaven. So I had a wonderful dad. He passed away earlier this year, and I had a wonderful granddad who, who also loved Jesus very much. And yeah, I had this incredible, it's kind of just jumping in and being pretty vulnerable. But I had this incredible picture the week after he passed away, I was in church and I was worshiping. And as I was doing that, I saw him standing there in glory with his, you know, standing in glory. It was very vivid, very vivid. And next to him was my granddad. And then next to them was a third person. And I remember saying to the Lord, Why can't I see the face of the third person? I can't make them out. And just like that, I felt the Holy Spirit say, Well, that's your great granddad, you've never met him, so you can't recognize him, you know. So, I don't know, that was just a strange thing that happened during worship. But my dad was a legend. He, there's a marathon in South Africa called the Comrades Marathon. It's an ultra marathon. It's 90 something kilometers. He ran 27 of those marathons. And to quote my brother, it said, he said, well, dad had no quit in him. And I remember him waking up in the morning and going, Dad, what are you doing? He's like, I'm going to run to work. I'm like, you, you, you live, you work about like 20 miles away,Dad. He's like, yeah, yeah, this is training. And I'm like, How are you going to get home? I'm going to run home. And yeah, so he was, he was an incredible guy in that space and a loving father, you know, did all that he could for us. And then there was an interesting moment because it really kind of played out with my son. He went through a lot of difficult times in the 80's. They lost their business. They were blindsided by some Christian partners and financial crisis, they lost everything. And he chose to to get take work, the only work he could find was nowhere near me, me and my mom and my brothers. And it's interesting because from the age of 13 to 16, 17, he wasn't around that much. But his choice was, it was a self-sacrificial love that he did that he literally wasn't there because he wanted to keep us in home, wanted to keep a roof over our heads and could just find the jobs that he wanted. But when my son turned 12, I remember turning to my wife in panic and saying, I don't know how to be a dad to a teenager. She said, What do you mean? I was like, Well, my dad wasn't there, so I don't have a roadmap. I've always had a roadmap, but now I don't know what to do. And her words were so wise, she was it like, Well, that's why you have Heavenly Father and yeah, what a beautiful journey it's been.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:08:06] I know that part of the journey with your son at that moment, kind of 12, 13 was recruiting some other men to help father him so you weren't doing it on your own. And some just intentionality around that. Would you share a little bit about that story of how you pulled together a crew around him?
Roy Harley: [00:08:27] Yeah. Sure. So, maybe, if it's okay, to take two steps back.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:08:33] Yeah.
Roy Harley: [00:08:33] So for me, the thing that I'm most passionate about is God's kingdom. And the reason is, is because, well, that'll come out a little bit later. But, but there was a moment in Christian Surfers when my kids were really young, we had moved to Jeffrey's Bay, and I was working really hard, you know, flat out. And I probably was not being the greatest dad because I was putting career and work way ahead of of anything else that I was doing. And at that point, there was an amazing woman that came and went to have dinner with us. And she's got a great gift, a prophetic gift. She said, Roy, I see you and the team sitting around and planning Christian Surfers events in South Africa and things are going great. And you've got this internship program that's looking good. And I really saw all of this effort and energy and and I was so excited. And then I started feeling grieved and I was like, Lord, why am I feeling grieved? And she said, I looked up and in the kitchen was your wife and your children and Jesus. And basically it was like, you know, she pulled the two barrels, I mean, bang, bang. She's like, it was literally the Holy Spirit saying, It's great that you're doing all this stuff for Me in ministry, but what are you doing with your family? And I remember feeling really convicted about this and struggling with it and trying to deny it and then having a chat with my wife and she said, Well, let's, let's fix this. You know, like when you come home from work, close the laptop and be present, like, that's it. Like, make that time important. And then after the kid's in bed, you can open it up and carry on. And, and I committed to that as a, as a practice as a little system. And wow, I mean, if you want to know like the way that is the return that, that has reached is, is phenomenal. And so if you fast forward to when Nathan turned 13, I had read several books. I guess that and one other thing from a pastor was the journey into wanting to be a good dad and realizing that we, none of us are or, you know, we want to be great dads, but that actually takes work and intentionality and, man, so many times I'm like, gosh, blew it again. Blew it again. But it also takes a call to walk alongside Jesus, I think, not just Jesus, but our Father in heaven. And as a young guy, I remember having a strong faith and I just remember a moment where I almost felt Jesus say, you've got to get to know the Father, it was a strange thing, you know. But going on a journey of what does it mean to have God as my Father has been the greatest gift I think, of anything in my life other than my salvation.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:11:19] And I guess maybe even before you talk about the process with your son, the book Fathered by God, I know, has been a maybe a recent adventure with your son to like be reading. This is written by John Eldridge. I'm actually in a men's group right here in Flagler Beach on that book right now. It's my second read through it. Yeah, talk about that book just a little bit of this slice. I know you guys are just in the first kind of third of the book together. But yeah, just to go into the theme of being Fathered by God and experiencing Him as a loving Father, and some of the takeaways from the book, you share a little bit about that, that resource?
Roy Harley: [00:11:58] Yeah, sure. I'm not all the way through the book because I've chosen to go step by step with my son. So we're going through a chapter together. I think it's just a genius book because it just kind of maps out a pathway for men and their sons to follow. I think you can do some stuff with your daughter, too. So for sure, for me, being a father is about being a father to a son and a daughter. And this great adventures that I've had with Cailyn that I could share. But I think that what's beautiful about this particular book is so much of it resonates with the journey that I've been on and so much of it, much of it is wanting, me wanting to let Nathan understand, look, there are these definite mile markers to become a man and a father and a husband. It requires you to be, you know, the boy who has fun. Then the, the cowboy, then the warrior, the lover, the king, and then the sage, which is the map of the book. And, you know, just, it's just another intentional thing to do. Like finding those intentional moments to create pathways with your kids is so important. And I think when we were prepping for this podcast, I thought like, where did, what, why does this resonate so deeply with me? I remember the day my daughter turned 2, I was on, I was leading worship, I was running Christian Surfers in South Africa. I was the worship pastor of our church and I was leading worship that evening and I was like, Well, she's 2 years old, she's not going to miss me. You know, like, she's not even going to know that I'm not there. So it was her birthday, had a little birthday party in the afternoon, and then I went off to do worship. And on Monday morning, my pastor Pedro called me in and he was like, Hey, I saw you on worship last night. And I'm like, Yep. And he goes, But wasn't it your daughter's birthday? And I'm like, yep, she turned 2. And he was like, Well, why were you on worship? And I was like, Well, I don't really think that she's going to miss me, you know, she's too young to even remember. Man, that was the wrong thing to say to this man. He was like the dawn, like he's an incredible human, one of the greatest mentors of my life. And he just pushed back in his chair and in a very gentle way, he went, hmmm, I think you need to just take a break from worship for a bit. That's all he said. He didn't say why and didn't give me excuses. And, and I think the the gentleness of being fathered by him as an older mentor built something in me that is completely unreasonable in my current job, and that is that I just will not miss a birthday. I've just committed to never missing my kids birthdays. They both, my daughter is 21 and my son is now 18, and I didn't realize it at the time, but that little moment, that little gift of a mentor, or you know, being part of a local church has changed so much of my life because there's just days when I've been like, no, I can't make that conference. No, I can't be there. Well I have to leave early. But what it's done on the other side and I realize how unreasonable this is, I mean, it really is unreasonable to be an international director that never misses. And I know that I couldn't ask everyone in my movement to do the same thing. So I'm aware of the the paradox in this, but for my children, they've never been second to the ministry ever.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:15:21] Roy, I, my memories are flashing so fast to my heart right now and in my mind around the last four years, because I've been full time with DadAwesome for four years. And I have four daughters. And so I have five birthdays, really. My wife's and my four daughters, to like to really protect of 365 days in the year. I have five birthdays to protect because they're okay, if for my birthday, if I want to do an event for work or whatever, they're fine. Nothing taken. But there's five dates on the calendar and I have, within the last two months flown out on a birthday to an event. I've hosted 100 mile bike rides on my daughter's birthday, twice in the last few years. These are our ministry events, Fathers for the Fatherless. I, I feel the Holy Spirit's like you can calibrate and follow Roy's lead right now. I can. And the, and the ministry is called DadAwesome. I fully have the ability to say no to opportunities on those five dates every year. But I haven't. So thank you. Thank you. And now, now I've shared it with other people to hear, hear my...
Roy Harley: [00:16:35] Yeah, I don't know. You know, not everyone can do that. Not everyone is cool to it. Look, having, having three instead of five, does make it easier. But the value that I've got from it, mate, I wouldn't trade it for anything. And I can you specific moments when I had to go, I was the speaker at a conference in South America, it was a big area conference. They really wanted me there and they wanted me there, conference was for five days. And I remember saying, I can't make it. Like there's no way. I just logistically, you know, I've done everything I could to. And I was like, guys, you just don't need me to be there. And they're like, You have to come. And I literally, eventually flew out for 48 hours, waited for the birthday to be done. You know, kissed my kids and family, goodbye. And the next day and sat across. And I think the value, though, on this side, as they get, as they get older, it's going to get easier. So there's a point where that's the other thing. I read this, there's a great book called The World Needs a Father. And he proposes that you're the greatest influence in your child's life from the ages of 1 to 11, that goes by in a flash like it's gone in a second. You have 11 years. And those are the craziest 11 years where you're sleep deprived, you're trying to get your career going, there's a million things happening, you know. But before you know it, you'll be on the other side of that. And for me, the pathways that you lay in those 11 years are what counts. So, I'll give you another fun little story, I heard a sermon from a church. Again, it's amazing how local church and community builds into this because we can't, there's a great proverbs, it takes a village to raise a child. And I think in the modern world, we get lost. We don't spend time in villages. We spend time in, in tiny little communities that are of our peers. The church is the one institution that calls us back to the village, because in the church there'll be someone older and there'll be someone younger. And there's so much wisdom in those little moment when an older guy will come and grab you arm and say, you should do something, or tension give you a bit of, like, no mate, you need to up your game on this one or we'll pray with, you know.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:18:41] Your pastor who pulled you aside when you led worship that night. What a gift for someone to see something they know is true about you, you value your family, and to bench you from like, I'm going to take you out of this because you, you didn't live with what's important to you. I mean, like the gift of that, having mentors, having a boss, having, you know, like brotherhood that will do that. I, I actually wanted to just glance, and I thought this might come up. So this is a Tom Petty lyric, won't back down, won't back down on my coffee mug this morning I thought that it might come up in conversation. I thought of your dad and his resilience and just like, wow, all these ultramarathons. But I also thought of you in the conviction around your son, your daughter, your wife's birthdays. You know, we use this phrase, I won't back down around personal finance, around physical accomplishments, around job pursuits, businesses we launched. We use this, I'm not going to be someone who backs down. But do we, do we use this expression and kind of mantra of I'm going to be a dad who doesn't back down from treasuring my, my kids, maximizing the 11 years of highest influence, highest molding. Yeah, any reflections on that concept of just I won't back down?
Roy Harley: [00:20:07] Absolutely. I think, I think it's it's absolutely critical because there's so many places where I won't back down would come into play. You know, I think, I think of little moments where you you know, you just have to be, your kids just need to know that you've got their back. That you're not going to make it easy for them. You're not going to give them a free pass, but you just won't back down. And, and you can do that in different ways, you know. You can do it in a good way, you can do it in a bad way. But ultimately, they need to know that, that my dad's coming back. He won't back down.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:20:48] Yeah, that's a great point, though. There's times where we need to back down and apologize or soften up. There's that side to the phrase.
Roy Harley: [00:20:57] Yes, but sometimes I think, I think that I love that phrase, the way you put the phrase, because I won't back down. There might be times when you need to soften. And once recently, I had to say to my daughter, She's 21 now, baby, I'm sorry because I stepped in and was your dad. I went all dad on the situation. And I didn't acknowledge that you're an adult and I should have come to you because it was your choice when I'd just went in guns blazing because I thought someone was going to hurt you, so I just, you know, didn't back down. Recognizing that probably the wisdom would have been to not back down, but in not backing down in this situation would have been something different. In this situation would have been, it would have been, I have got your back, I'm behind you. But you're the adult, you need to take the step. So, how do I, how do I back you instead of jumping in front of you? And that still is true to your your term, don't back down, because it's the same thing. It's saying, I'm not backing down. I'm willing to go as far as it needs to go. But I recognize that you are an adult. I didn't actually remember what I was going to say. I listen to this sermon and it was the best sermon, there's that scripture train a child up in the way they should go and when they're older, they will not depart from it. But this is the first time I've heard it done in this way. And the pastor just said, That's not about you training up your child in the way that you want them to go. It's about you figuring out what God has built into your child and then allowing that to flourish. So you need to train them up in the way that He has designed for them to go. And when they re older, will not depart from it. And that took me down a little journey of thinking I need to find pathways. I need to find pathways that allow me to connect. 1-11 is easy, they love you, they're going to jump in your arms. And you know, it's really about making time. Like the greatest gift we can give people is time. So any resource you can't even get anymore, you can't buy anymore. It's, it's, you know, given to you one day at a time. And I was trying to think about what these pathways would be. And the one pathway was, my son loved playing video games. I don't. No desire to play video games, a different era. Anyway, I was in a, on a work trip. I was on totally different time zones. I was on the California coast. It's hours, hours different. It's really different to South Africa. And he, I had the iPad and I had to do an update on Fortnite. And it was a super, super important thing. And he was like, Dad, you got to get this update done on this particular day. So the, the, the, the challenge with this update was like, I was tired, it was the end of the day. I really didn't know, didn't have any desire. And I was like, you know what? This is important to him, I'm going just, I'm going to do it. So I, I did the update and wanting to go to sleep, middle of the night, and as I pushed go, I had this little voice on the other side of the IPad, Hey, Dad, are you awake? So I forgot the time zones. And so me and Nathan had this little game on Fortnite together. I had no idea what I was doing. I was getting completely shut up. But we played on different sides of the world at different points in time. And I realized, like, I just got to figure out his pathway, you know, and for my daughter as well. And then I read a great book by Bob Goff called Love Does. So me and Caylin went on, she wrote the script for her 16th birthday, and I made it happen. She wanted to surf small waves and raised the funds. We did what we needed to do, and we went to Thailand together, on a front end of a Christian Surfers thing. So those little pathways, you can discover them and it's the joy of that pathway. It's an excitement that you can find in, in unexpected places. It makes me think of how God loves us. I think He loves, He's built us in that way. And, you know, for me, getting up and going for surf is something that, you know, is amazing. And I think we forget that He would probably love to spend that kind of time with us.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:24:51] I, yes. Oh my goodness. Such like the visual of God loving to spend time with us and to find the pathways that like our, how He's wired us and created us. Then we as dads find those pathways of connection with our kids and how God's made them. I'm realizing sometimes I have conversations where I just dive in deep and then I have to like pull back out for a moment before diving in deep again because I have so many follow up questions. But the, the pan out, for a moment, we've been talking little bits about the ministry, Christian Surfers. And I'm realizing, I know about the ministry and the great impact and the decades and decades, I've actually heard from the original founder. I've heard his perspective and I've heard you share on it. But Christian Surfers, the Vision, there's a local chapter just up the road from where I live here in Florida, the St Augustine chapter. What, what is the, to help a dad who doesn't know anything about Christian Surfers, could you just, yeah, give us the fly over of the impact, the ministry, and why you're in with your whole heart, serving in that ministry?
Roy Harley: [00:25:54] Yeah. So the vision is pretty simple. We want every surfer and every surfing community to have the opportunity to both know and follow Jesus. And what that looks like is we share the good news of Jesus. We do this in communities of faith. And that Christian Surfer's currently is working in 37 countries around the world. And we have probably, close on 200 local weekly meetings chapters. And then you can find us in all sorts of other places, YouVersion Bible app, if you type in Christian Surfers, there'll be Bible reading plans, online and in all the regular social spaces. We just try to connect surfers that know Jesus with the opportunity to take that surfing and use it for mission and ministry and then surfers that don't know Jesus. The other thing you can go check out is thesurfersbible.com.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:26:46] Yes, I have a copy of it. Yes. So good.
Roy Harley: [00:26:50] So good. That was a great project because we built analog hand away Bible but with digital backend. So there's all these great secure videos that are linked with QR codes.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:27:01] So the reason I want to at least mention, again, some of the dads are not near a surfing community, but the the finding a subculture niche that you know, man, if we can reach this look what God will do through relationships in these pockets of communities that that have deep connection, brotherhood, sisterhood community, love for each other, love for the sport, but are not connected with the local church and the local churches are not figuring out ways to engage. And so I know there's so much more there. I'm going to link out, though, for everyone who wants to find out what the Christian, the Christian Surfer's Bible and, and, and all the other resources. You guys, the YouVersion Bible app, all those different tools. So thank you for your leadership and who knows how DadAwesome and Christian Surfers maybe they'll be even more collaborative ways we can approach that. And then the other pan out is just your son, your daughter, their current age, and then how long you've been married? What's and what's your wife's name?
Roy Harley: [00:27:56] My wife's name is Sharon and she is the real hero of our family. We've been married for 26 years. She is my soulmate and my the love of my life, as is the quiet one in the background that has pioneered so much of everything that I've done or been involved in. Then my son is Nathan and he's just turned 17 and my daughter's Cailyn, and she's 21. And that's that's our little family. Yeah.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:28:24] Amazing. And I know your daughter just got back from New Zealand doing an amazing ministry school there. And then, yeah, your son, we started to go down this, this story, but then we hit a few other topics. But the conversation that we had back six months ago when we first met, Roy, around, around intentional moments for your son and bringing other people alongside him. Could you take us through a little bit of what you prayerfully crafted for him?
Roy Harley: [00:28:54] So I had a real sense that, that there needed to be a transition into manhood. He was turning 13. I know that's a biblical thing, and I've been reading some stuff around that. In South Africa here there's a tribe called the Tribe, and they have a very intentional and very like hectic way of young boys transitioning into manhood. And so I was thinking about this and I thought, you know, I'm going to build something out, and based on what I read and understood and I spent quite a bit of time thinking about this and I wanted it to be different to the trip that I took my daughter and then him and later when he turned 16. So at 13, like I did a couple of things. I asked several men that I had relationship with around the world, in all parts of the world to write stories. Some of them really amazing men, like the founder of Christian Surfers, Brett Davis, was one of them, a famous surfboard shaper and others that I had a relationship with but that had exemplified this solid kingdom centric life. And I asked them to write me stories of, and a special message to Nathan as he, you know, and either in written form or in video. I curated those stories, and then I asked several men, a couple of men to get involved with me. So it was myself and Nathan, it was my one of my best friends and his son, another best friend and his son and then an older guy who often fulfilled the function of like a granddad. And we're all surfers. So we packed the car, took out the surfboards, say goodbye to the moms and the women's, and we just headed out on a wild adventure. And on the adventure we would push them every day. So I'd be like, Look, mates you're going paddle out at this spot. And they'd be like, What are you for real? I'd be like, yep, you're going out. And they'd have to. There was no moms. There's no safety nets. We were going out. I remember jumping off the front of the rocks with him, like his eyes wide open, you know, like pretty intense, to be honest. Way, way more intense than his mom would have been comfortable with. In fact, she would have gone flat out no. So get out to the back and he paddles into this wave, which is, and he drops in, and I can still remember his little face. I mean, the thing is, like three times over a head frame. Comes paddling back, he's like dad, that's the biggest wave I've every caught in my life. And so there was the fun side, the adventure, that a little bit of the, you know, the warrior, like give it a go. And then in the evenings we'd have a fire. We'd cook, in South Africa, a barbecue is called a braai. It's a very much part of our culture. So every evening we'd have a braai and I'd make sure it was really good, nice food. But I asked each one of the men that were with me to share a story with them, and I was like, Don't hold back. I want it to be raw. I want to be vulnerable. I want to be real. Like, he's looking at us as, you know, older men thinking, we've all got it together. I want him to know that, number one, we don't all have it together. Hard stuff has happened to us in our lives. And number two, but that we will be there for him. So each of the guys share their stories. And man, I didn't even know some of these stories. One person shared about just the pain of being bullied and, and absolutely betrayed by friends, you know. Another dad shared on how he had got together with his surfing crew to go watch a surf video and this guy put on a porn movie and how he, how he felt in that moment and how he struggled after that moment. And another, you know, as we went around the room, we shared these really crazy, really like, raw, life oriented stories of the real men that we were. These are not perfect figures. By the way, each of the dads brought their own son. So there were, you know, he had peers with him. And then after that, we would pray and, you know, we'd do the same crazy adventure stuff the next day. And then I asked each of those men if they would make a challenge for Nathan. So there was a physical challenge, there was a spiritual challenge, there was a financial challenge and that he had to accomplish within, within a year. So he had his 13th year to do it. So my challenge for him was you have to surf Super Tubes, i's the main wave in Jeffreys Bay. It's definitely, for a 13 year old, it's a big ask. And I was like, and not just once, you've got to get comfortable out there. So, I'll go out there with you and we're going to figure this out. And he did. And I remember with absolute joy, like he surfed it several times with me. And then there was a sort of mid-size day, and I was off to the office and he was like, Hey, Dad, can you drop me for a surf? And I was like yeah, sure, where do you want to go? He's like Supers. There's my little 13 year old running down the steps, paddling out through the bottom keyhole at 13 on his own. And I was like, Wow, there's so much more that I would have ever, ever done at that age. One of the dads, actually took some time and my wife wanted a warm water shower, Jeffreys Bay is cold, like California. And he spent the week with angle grinders and nails and cement and literally helped build that little outdoor warm water shower out the back of the house. And another dad loaned him some money and said, look, I want you to invest this, I'll help you invest this. And I was like a, you know, an online platform. And what I want you to consider how being a good steward of your money and finances will help you. And the fourth challenge was a spiritual one. We want to be able to share your faith with with your friends in a authentic, meaningful way. And those dads committed to two things, one, holding them accountable to deliver on what he had said he would do, as a man, as a 13 year old man. And the second one, they covenanted, as well as the dads that had sent me that stuff. You know, the video messages say if you ever need anything we're here for you. You've got this community that's backing you, you're not alone in this world.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:35:02] Wow. Roy, I'm imagining the accomplishment of that year in those, those four spheres and how that compounds forward. What you learned around finance, what you learned around working with your hands on a physical like a house project, what you learn from the courage and the like, I need to drop in at Super Tubes. And then, and then, and then in the faith side of share your faith. If you do that when you're 13, like what you learn when you're 14 and 15 and 16. And I'm so inspired, as a dad of an 11 year old, is my oldest, like so inspired by the ways that any of us dads could craft because we've been gifted with friends, mentors that we just have to, you know, you reaching for letters or videos, you reaching for friends to say, hey, come do this with me. Yeah, I just, it feels so simple the way you're explaining it right now. Now there is risk. And I actually, my, my mind went to going in off the rocks in Australia, a surfer's Paradise. Just a little South of there, Snapper Rocks. Have you surfed that break before Snapper Rocks?
Roy Harley: [00:36:14] Yes.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:36:15] Have you gone in off the rocks there?
Roy Harley: [00:36:18] I surfed, there's the super bank and the big rock, where you jump up behind the rock. Is that one, with the on to the beat?
Jeff Zaugg: [00:36:25] That's it. So it's the waves crash against the face and shoot the water up. And the surfers that know what they're doing, they just hop in and they glide right out, right down. But if you have long legs like me and you jump a little too late, the, the, the, the the shooting water will flip you into very dangerous sharp rocks. And so, so for a month I watched other people do that. And I palddled around every time, I did all the extra paddling. And then finally I'm like, it's time, let's go. But nobody coached me. I went and I watched and I tried to figure it out on my own. And just like your son, like without coaching and fathering, it can be really dangerous. Like, it was very dangerous for me being there without the right coaching. And, you know, I just think about earlier you talked about how God is Fathering you in a season that you didn't, because of proximity to your dad in that phase, you didn't know. I think some, some dads listening right now are like, I'm going to take a tumble and I'm going to hurt myself and hurt my child. Like, how can I do this? I've haven't been prepared for this, so I'm going to play it safe a little bit. Instead of pressing with intentionality, I'm going to play it safe like, like the tall surfer who paddles around instead of going off the rocks. And what I hear and what I read, you know, won't back down. Like I want to see like, I pray for a generation of dads who bring their full hearts and recruit letters and videos and create experiences and go on trips to Thailand and save money and budget money to go with your daughter on these. What would, what would you share with these dads to actually go all in versus kind of do the small deposits and, and kind of hold back?
Roy Harley: [00:38:03] Well, I think two things. Firstly, don't, because there's the other side where you go, you try and make something happen and there's a big, very negative consequence, you know. So I would say don't go, if you're not a surfer, don't go and do some crazy surf thing. You know, if you're not a bike jumper, don't go do a bike jumping thing. But you got to start with where you are. The second thing I'd probably say is don't underestimate the how God our Father will help you in that. And I think that's one of the things I said earlier. My passion is the kingdom and my personal mission statement would be for the kingdom. But the thing is, when we think about God and His kingdom, we go, Yeah, that's cool. You know, it's spiritual, Christianity. Yeah. But that's not what I'm trying to say. The real game changer is when we realize that in the kingdom, I'm actually a son. That is my role. That is what I'm called to do. That is what Jesus did. He made me a son, and therefore I served the King and His kingdom. Not as a as a member of the kingdom, but as a son called to serve my Father and be about my Father's business. And I think as a dad, what I can say is, regardless of where you find yourself, He will start there and He will help you fill in the blanks. And you need to craft and curate something that is right for your son or your daughter. My daughter wanted to surf small, warm waves and the journeys that I've been on with her, I was so scared to go on that trip at 16. What am I going to say? What do I say to my teenage daughter? Two days later, we whipping around the island on a scooter, I'm driving it, and she is risk averse compared to to me and my son. I was like, You going to drive the scooter. She's like No, not a chance. But I think you've got to play from who you are as a person. It's got to be authentic and you've got to play from a position of where God is there. And I think God invites us into this adventure of fatherhood. And, you know, I think for me, my whole life, look, I am a risk taker. In fact, my wife and I joke if I'm and especially before I had my daughter, she you know, when we got married, she said if she had married somebody else, they would have had a boring life. And if I had married somebody else, I might have killed myself, which is probably true. But the two of us together have brought like this, like this balance. But for me, everything changed the day I held my daughter. I don't know how to explain it to you because I was like, I'm not dead and I have to be here. I can't, you know, disappear like I have to be here. And I think, I think that's the thing. Like we it sounds great on the podcast, I guess. And you know, the stories looking back sound fantastic. And we always share our best stories, not our failure. And believe me, there have been monumental failures. But I think God meets us in those spaces and our Father knows how to be a Father. He knows better than any of us. And so to any other father on the journey of trying to be the best dad with, with me and you, I'd say lean in there first because He's, He's got the grip.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:41:24] Yeah. Roy, just to end our time and I'm so grateful for this conversation with you. The, the practical things that you would share around leading an organization that has a global footprint and the real demands of travel. You've mentioned practically like, say no on their birthdays, so that you can be there with the ones that matter most. You've mentioned practically like even the Fortnite example of like late night, you're tired and you're playing, using digital connection for a lane, you know, a path that is a connection point. And then these strategic trips in the strategic year of 13th year. So these things, you know, play in with trips that you're actually away from your family. What, what other practical would you say has helped? Again, you've mentioned there's stories of missing it. Anything on the, the dad listening whose job takes them, it has demands that keeps them away from the family or brings them on the road. Just any practical wisdom you'd want to share with us?
Roy Harley: [00:42:28] Yeah. So I think to the, I'd say we all have to evaluate ourselves. So the most practical thing on a daily basis I'd say is Jesus is too big to be a satellite in our world. Like He's, He is way too big. Like, we can't have Christianity as this thing that we, we have in the top right or left hand corner or orbiting whatever else we doing. The, the simplicity, the simple fact of the way that God, our Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit works is like he realigns everything around His gravity. So the first thing I'd say to a dad who is traveling away and working a lot is on the one hand, that's what you've got to go with us because you know, you've got to get to a point of peace where you like, like I've, I've got this, the alignment with my Father in heaven, right. Because everything else will come into alignment after that and that might be hard. Because you might have to make adjustments that you don't want to make. You might have to recognize that you are trying to keep Jesus and your kids and anyone else in an orbit around something else, like what is the center of gravity of your world? And then that's a daily challenge for the rest of our lives. But once we have that center of gravity in the right place, I think the next practical thing is don't beat yourself up because you're on that plane and you can't be there. You know, I, as I said, my dad passed away and I didn't have my dad for my teenage years. But, my goodness, do I honor him for what he did. I look at a man that was willing to sacrifice the thing that he loved most, to help and allow me and my, my siblings to have a foot up in this world. You know, that speaks to a lot. He is not able to be only present, but he was all present in terms of what he did for us and the example he set. And when I look at, and then there's other dad, other mentors, the other practical thing I'd say is, look, God, your Father will help you. But Pedro, my pastor, Brett Davis, the founder of Christian Surfers, there's other men that have spoken into my life. One, one of my best mates, his name's, Ian Coleman, his dad, I was on a trip down to Cape Town. I was living in Jeffreys Bay, and in a tiny little moment he will not even remember this, he said to me, How is Sharon doing? And I said, I think she's okay. He grabbed my arm, pushed me into the corner, and he said, thinking she's okay is not good enough. I mean, what do you mean? And then he unpacked this life story that he had with his wife where everything was perfect and he was working and he was achieving in his career and everything was great. And they went to sleep at night, and as, as, as he rolled over and kissed her goodnight, she said, I don't think this is working. He jumped out of bed going, What are you talking about? And they had a three hour conversation and made some adjustments. Well, that little moment from another person in the church, in the congregation, that little moment of wisdom allowed me to come back home, say, Hey, love, how you doing? And I've never, ever asked that question in the same way again. I'm always actually trying to listen, now. How you really doing? Am I paying enough attention? Because I think as as dads, we want to be charging the hill and, you know, sometimes we don't pay enough attention to the central and gravitational stuff that's happening. How's my wife doing? How's my daughter doing? How is my other child doing? Like, and I was thinking to myself, you know, am I paying, am I being present enough? Even today, maybe one of my failings, not going surfing with my daughter this morning, I probably could have juggled things around. I really had this agenda I needed to get through. And as I'm finishing this podcast, I'm going, You know what? If my day would probably been the same, it would have just taking an hour and I would have surfed with her. And I failed, this is, I've got tomorrow.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:46:27] Got tomorrow. What a great gift that is. Right? The perspective of failure, missing it, oh myy goodness. The gift of family is we can say we're sorry and we can say, let's, let's go tomorrow. Roy, I'm so grateful for this conversation we had, at one point, we were talking about recording, actually sitting on surfboards just outside the break. We were going to do our first sitting in the ocean recording. So maybe that will be our next round in Jeffreys Bay. I don't know if you can sit pass the break or if the, if the current will pull us too fast to record their Jeffrey's day. But thank you for this conversation. And Roy, could you say a prayer, a short prayer over all of us dads as we close?
Roy Harley: [00:47:04] Sure. Father, I thank You so much that we can bow our heads and be in Your presence. I thank You that You are the one who created us that all the days are ordained for us to return in Your book before one of them came to be. I thank You that You know where we are right now as we are listening to this or hearing this or in this journey of fatherhood and You know how to take us to a better place, to be more present, to be more, to be more like You. Ultimately, that's what we trying to do. So I pray for each dad that You meet them by the power of your Spirit right now. That You'd encourage them, that they have so much to give and so much impact and so much influence to be in the lives of their children. And Lord, that You'd encourage them, that the joy of those tiny little moments exist just a yes decision away. Bless them. Bless us and keep us. Make Your face to shine upon us. Help us to be more like You. In Jesus name. Amen.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:48:02] Thank you so much for joining us this week for episode 359 with Roy Harley. The conversation notes, the transcripts, some of the key quotes are all going to be linked at dadawesome.orgpodcast. I want to encourage you guys check out the Surfer's Bible. Also, check out the YouVersion Bible plans that Christian Surfers has released and just their website and ministry. The global impact of Christian Surfers and Roy Harley's leadership is phenomenal. So, guys, thanks for listening. Thanks for pressing in these areas. You heard my heart in this conversation is, I always want to enter every episode of DadAwesome saying, God, what do You have for me? And I made a commitment in this conversation, I'm going to protect the birthdays of my five favorite girls in the universe, my four daughters and my wife. I'm going to protect those birthdays. I'm not going to travel or host ministry events on their birthdays moving forward. So that's my commitment coming out of this episode. And there's other takeaways. But I just want to encourage you guys, let's not remain unchanged. Let's be DadAwesome today, this week, this month, this year. Let's press in. Your heart matters. Your relationship with your kids matter. Your intentionality matters. So let's stay prayerful. Let's pursue their hearts and let's have fun as we step into being DadAwesome. Have a great week, guys.
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· 20:58 - " I love that phrase, the way you put the phrase, because I won't back down. There might be times when you need to soften. Once recently, I had to say to my daughter, She's 21 now, baby, I'm sorry because I stepped in and was your dad. I went all dad on the situation. I didn't acknowledge that you're an adult and I should have come to you because it was your choice, when I'd just went in guns blazing because I thought someone was going to hurt you, so I just didn't back down. Recognizing that probably the wisdom would have been to not back down, but in not backing down, in this situation, would have been something different. In this situation, would have been I have got your back, I'm behind you. But you're the adult, you need to take the step."
· 42:31 - "We all have to evaluate ourselves. The most practical thing on a daily basis I'd say is Jesus is too big to be a satellite in our world. He is way too big. We can't have Christianity as this thing that we have in the top right or left hand corner or orbiting whatever else we're doing. The simple fact of the way that God, our Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit works is He realigns everything around His gravity."
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